Map Inflation

[wcaclimbing]

ADD MORE CA's!!!!!!

Instead, just pick a few people, such as DiM, Kaplowitz, and InkL0sed (becausethey are very active in the foundry) and pretend they are CA's. They comment quite a bit on stuff and their suggestions are usually good. would that make you happier?

[DiM]

my comments are down to an all time low

i would pay anything to have 30 hour days

[cairnswk]

Gimil, i made an aology for this remark in the below topic.
viewtopic.php?f=127&t=48226

Cairns your idea that a CA should be commenting on all maps is completly wrong. Me and Oaktown are first and foremost members of the community. That means I hold the right to not commen on a map that doesnt intrest me. If a map cant keep the ball rolling without official imput thats not my problem. If I dont want to comment on a map then I wont until it reaches a stage where it needs me before it can move on.

Gimil, starting with the old adage "when i was CA or whatever my title was" two of the "job descriptions aspects" that defined my roll (from Andy) were:

*You'd need to keep up on most of the maps, at least know where they are in production, and what maps need a push in advice, etc. Guiding hand, I call it.

*Also make note what maps I should maybe comment on, or throw some opinions into.

I don't know about the second point as i am not privy to discussions between you and Andy, and i am sure you provide this support to Andy.

But on the first point, i make the above statement about the CAs position as being one where a guiding hand is needed by the CA otherwise what is the use of calling them Cartographers Assistants. One might as well call you all "rubber stampers" if that's the only process you're going to participate in apart from throwing in the some regular banter, and the comments that you only feel like making on maps that interest you.

I make these statements because in the past it has been the role of the CAs to keep things moving along, regardless of whether this a voluntary or not...unless of course Andy has changed the job description from the one I was given....which i doubt because the same process needs to evolve and has not been replaced by one better. I stand corrected however, if this process has changed and i am ill-informed.

[cairnswk]

my comments are down to an all time low

i would pay anything to have 30 hour days

that's coz you're producing the wrong kind of apples now...or was it fruit? perhaps you need some jonathons!

[DiM]

my comments are down to an all time low

i would pay anything to have 30 hour days

that's coz you're producing the wrong kind of apples now...or was it fruit? perhaps you need some jonathons!

no that's because of the nato summit in my city. lots of things to do and so little time
good thing it only lasted a week. i plan on taking a good look at a number of maps in the coming week to catch up on the discussions.

[laci_mae]

The threads that maintain current information in the title and title post are bound to generate the most discussion. However, I believe that updates beget discussion. Mapmakers can't wait around for 4 or 5 major changes to make a major update. If you have the time, graphic ability, and creativity, you should push the map through on your own. Obvious improvements will draw more comments.

LMR

[oaktown]

Cairns your idea that a CA should be commenting on all maps is completly wrong. Me and Oaktown are first and foremost members of the community. That means I hold the right to not commen on a map that doesnt intrest me. If a map cant keep the ball rolling without official imput thats not my problem. If I dont want to comment on a map then I wont until it reaches a stage where it needs me before it can move on.

Gimil, starting with the old adage "when i was CA or whatever my title was" two of the "job descriptions aspects" that defined my roll (from Andy) were:

*You'd need to keep up on most of the maps, at least know where they are in production, and what maps need a push in advice, etc. Guiding hand, I call it.

*Also make note what maps I should maybe comment on, or throw some opinions into.

I don't know about the second point as i am not privy to discussions between you and Andy, and i am sure you provide this support to Andy.

But on the first point, i make the above statement about the CAs position as being one where a guiding hand is needed by the CA otherwise what is the use of calling them Cartographers Assistants. One might as well call you all "rubber stampers" if that's the only process you're going to participate in apart from throwing in the some regular banter, and the comments that you only feel like making on maps that interest you.

I make these statements because in the past it has been the role of the CAs to keep things moving along, regardless of whether this a voluntary or not...unless of course Andy has changed the job description from the one I was given....which i doubt because the same process needs to evolve and has not been replaced by one better. I stand corrected however, if this process has changed and i am ill-informed.

I think it's correct to say that one of my (and gimil's) roles is to keep up with and contribute to the discussion on all maps. The difference now is that we've split the work up a bit, so I don't have to keep up with all maps in the main ideas and forge, since my specific responsibility is to ready all maps in the main foundry for gameplay. If I'm asked to look at something in Ideas or Forge I will, but those aren't where my focus is these days.

What I believe gimil meant, and what I tried to point out in my post last week, is that gimil and I can not and should not be counted on to be the only voices keeping a map moving forward. Let's say there's a map in the Map Idea subforum that is attracting absolutely no interest. It's not even bad enough to get people to mock it. I'm not going to spend my time trying to help that map move forward because (1) it's not at the stage where I need to tell the mapmaker what they need to do to get my stamp and, (2) more importantly, if nobody else in the Foundry wants to see it made it's probably not worthy of my attention.

This thread began because a map maker felt his maps weren't getting enough attention, and it should have ended with DiM's very astute second post:

if a map doesn't get feedback it means it's not worth continuing.

Gimil and I should - and at some point do - comment on each and every map that passes through here. But we aren't the Foundry Life Support machine - if a map can't breath on its own, we shouldn't be expected to save it.

[Qwert]

Oaktown
This thread began because a map maker felt his maps weren't getting enough attention, and it should have ended with DiM's very astute second post:

Well you can free to put mine name,because i open these thread, to know what people thinking about present situation, and i will be thankfull to know if MOd squad dont like or dont interesting mine maps, because present situation is very iritating,to waiting to get feedback,or Any other aprrow to get in second(final stage). Still i thinking that now Map foundry need more CA,to proces in foundry move.

[DiM]

no matter how many CAs we have no map will be pushed forward if it lacks feedback from the community.

[gimil]

Qwerts what exactly is the problem you have with the current CA's? Dont you think we are moving maps on when we need to?

[Qwert]

Qwerts what exactly is the problem you have with the current CA's? Dont you think we are moving maps on when we need to?

Well mine Ardennes Offensive topic have 221 reply,and 117 is mine reply,and bigest problem is when you or Oaktown give feedback,aim answer on hem,and also give some question,but in big number of these you dont reply(main problem is that you come again after 2-3 days,and you forget in your last reply),ofcourse these situation not only with you,with others too(give some sugestion,and then never come back),and when i change some thing and then say"what you think now",these person no show again.
In last two or three pages i repeat"what is left now"and check Handbook for maps.
I belive that i acheve all rules for Graphic, and still waiting Oaktown to give hes opinion abouth Gameplay.
Last days i just work minor thing(Crishp Letters,"Hold" "Get" legend to not close lines),and these things can done in 5 min. If you belive that some maps is finish with Graphic,and Gameplay,then i dont understand why must waith,with giving permision to next stage. Or if you thing that all major thing not finish,to say what mising. Any way,with more CA,you can observe more maps better(if i count good the number of maps is grow and now i belive is number is over 60,so inflacion is moving up )

[oaktown]

Well mine Ardennes Offensive topic have 221 reply,and 117 is mine reply,and bigest problem is when you or Oaktown give feedback,aim answer on hem,and also give some question,but in big number of these you dont reply

OK qwert, since you've brought up numbers, take a look at these:
221 total posts in Ardennes
117 posts by the map maker
33 posts by C.A.s (Coleman, oaktown, gimil and Andy)

53% of all posts have been by you.
32% of the rest of the posts have been by CAs

and i will be thankfull to know if MOd squad dont like or dont interesting mine maps

It doesn't matter if I like your map. It doesn't. I will look at a map regardless of how much I like it. But I think it's pretty clear that Gimil (16 posts) and I (9 posts) are supporting this map.

This illustrates wonderfully the point I was trying to make above: it takes more than a mapmaker and team of CAs - no matter how big the team - to make a map. If we had ten CAs looking at a map it wouldn't make the map any more popular. I look at a map because I have accepted the responsibility of doing so, not because I'm necessarily interested in it. And when I come in I will tell the mapmaker what I think it needs to meet minimum standards, but we need people who care about the map to make it great.

About your maps in particular, I'm not sorry that it takes anywhere from four to seven days for me to look at your changes because that's the time I have. But I ask you, why isn't anybody else commenting on the changes during those seven days?

[Qwert]

Its look that you not good with %.
221 post
117 is mine 52,65%
Gimil 7,2%
Oaktown 4,05%
Andy 3,6%
------------------
ME 52,65%
Mod Squad 14,85%
other people 32,5%

of course if we count me and Mod-almost 70% whas participation of 4 man,whas is very small number of people who take part in creation of these map.

But I ask you, why isn't anybody else commenting on the changes during those seven days?

Maybe people thinking that map is good?

[oaktown]

my numbers were correct. I said that 32% of the REST of the posts were by CAs - that means after I've already accounted for the 117 posts you've left.

221 - 117 = 104. 32% of 104 is 33. 32% of the posts not by you have been by Gimil, Coleman, Andy or I.

Meanwhile, I could spend this time looking at your map.

[Qwert]

Meanwhile, I could spend this time looking at your map

Yea,you should

[DiM]

Its look that you not good with %.
221 post
117 is mine 52,65%
Gimil 7,2%
Oaktown 4,05%
Andy 3,6%
------------------
ME 52,65%
Mod Squad 14,85%
other people 32,5%

of course if we count me and Mod-almost 70% whas participation of 4 man,whas is very small number of people who take part in creation of these map.

you know what these numbers make me think?? the map has very little support. if the only people posting are the map maker and the CA it's pretty clear the map holds little or no interest to the general public.

[wcaclimbing]

my numbers were correct. I said that 32% of the REST of the posts were by CAs - that means after I've already accounted for the 117 posts you've left.

221 - 117 = 104. 32% of 104 is 33. 32% of the posts not by you have been by Gimil, Coleman, Andy or I.

Meanwhile, I could spend this time looking at your map.

Slightly off topic, but I'm curious....
How would I go about looking up these stats?
I want to look up information for my own map to see how it compares with the stats posted above (to see if there is a big difference in the %s)

[shadowsteel9]

my numbers were correct. I said that 32% of the REST of the posts were by CAs - that means after I've already accounted for the 117 posts you've left.

221 - 117 = 104. 32% of 104 is 33. 32% of the posts not by you have been by Gimil, Coleman, Andy or I.

Meanwhile, I could spend this time looking at your map.

Slightly off topic, but I'm curious....
How would I go about looking up these stats?
I want to look up information for my own map to see how it compares with the stats posted above (to see if there is a big difference in the %s)

to find the % of something you divide the whole by the part, example if you had 5 posts and 3 of them were yours, u'd have 60% of posts belonging to you

[DiM]

my numbers were correct. I said that 32% of the REST of the posts were by CAs - that means after I've already accounted for the 117 posts you've left.

221 - 117 = 104. 32% of 104 is 33. 32% of the posts not by you have been by Gimil, Coleman, Andy or I.

Meanwhile, I could spend this time looking at your map.

Slightly off topic, but I'm curious....
How would I go about looking up these stats?
I want to look up information for my own map to see how it compares with the stats posted above (to see if there is a big difference in the %s)

to find the % of something you divide the whole by the part, example if you had 5 posts and 3 of them were yours, u'd have 60% of posts belonging to you

muahahaha wca is not that stupid, he knows how to find out a %

he was wondering where he can see who poasted in a thread and how many posts that person had, etc.

the answer is simple. open excel and the thread. then start counting page by page post by post.

[wcaclimbing]

to find the % of something you divide the whole by the part, example if you had 5 posts and 3 of them were yours, u'd have 60% of posts belonging to you

muahahaha wca is not that stupid, he knows how to find out a %

he was wondering where he can see who poasted in a thread and how many posts that person had, etc.

the answer is simple. open excel and the thread. then start counting page by page post by post.

Thank you DiM....

Is there an easier way than counting it all by hand?

Well, I counted by searching for my posts in the main foundry. If i counted correctly, I have 69 posts in Oasis. That means 23.9%. A whole lot less than Quert's 52%. I'm not gonna count Gimil's posts (cause he has posts all over the foundry and the post search technique won't work as well) But he doesn't have very many.

Not to advertise my own map, but it has been pretty popular with most of the people in the foundry. Lots of people are coming back and posting every day or two. (even this week, when I haven't posted at all in the thread, it has gained two full pages of new posts.)

Oasis has 4491 views, 292 comments. 6.5% of views result in comments.
Ardennes has 5396 views, 247 comments. 4.6% of views result in comments.
They are both pretty close, but there still is a gap there.

Now, I'm not saying Oasis or Ardennes is better, I'm just putting up some more information. It seems to me that Oasis is pretty popular, and Ardennes has similar statistics. It can't be that unpopular, can it?

[DiM]

It seems to me that Oasis is pretty popular, and Ardennes has similar statistics. It can't be that unpopular, can it?

actually it can.
if you take both threads and cut the posts by the map maker you have 223 for oasis and 104 for ardennes.
now look at the days the threads have, 56 for oasis and 118 for ardennes

this means that in oasis you have 3.98 posts per day and in ardennes you get 0.88 posts per day.

again, this is without the map maker posts just foundry posters.

so basically oasis can be considered 4.52 times more popular than ardennes, despite having similar stats.

aren't numbers great?

[InkL0sed]

It seems to me that Oasis is pretty popular, and Ardennes has similar statistics. It can't be that unpopular, can it?

actually it can.
if you take both threads and cut the posts by the map maker you have 223 for oasis and 104 for ardennes.
now look at the days the threads have, 56 for oasis and 118 for ardennes

this means that in oasis you have 3.98 posts per day and in ardennes you get 0.88 posts per day.

again, this is without the map maker posts just foundry posters.

so basically oasis can be considered 4.52 times more popular than ardennes, despite having similar stats.

aren't numbers great?

Heh, I would venture to guess that Oasis is the most popular map in the Foundry at the moment.