Conquer Club

whats the mininum diameter required??

in pixels

Anywhere from 20-24 pixels should be good. Just make sure they're an even # of pixels across.
These two threads may be of some help:
http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=21353
http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17823

pepperonibread wrote:Anywhere from 20-24 pixels should be good. Just make sure they're an even # of pixels across.
These two threads may be of some help:
http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=21353
http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17823

yer even number is for resize from large to small for centering right
thats good cause i did them at 20 pixels. and on its own layer before reading that
cheers

you can't just make the circles once on the large/small and keep them for the resized version. when you resize the map, many of the circles will become distorted and no longer are perfect circles. So, you'll have to do circles separately on the large and small.

I don't know how to get around this. I don't think anyone has posted something to explain if it is possible even.

edbeard wrote:you can't just make the circles once on the large/small and keep them for the resized version. when you resize the map, many of the circles will become distorted and no longer are perfect circles. So, you'll have to do circles separately on the large and small.

I don't know how to get around this. I don't think anyone has posted something to explain if it is possible even.

i haven't found a way yet. ed. perhaps wm might know something

cairnswk wrote:

edbeard wrote:you can't just make the circles once on the large/small and keep them for the resized version. when you resize the map, many of the circles will become distorted and no longer are perfect circles. So, you'll have to do circles separately on the large and small.

I don't know how to get around this. I don't think anyone has posted something to explain if it is possible even.

i haven't found a way yet. ed. perhaps wm might know something

i thought i read a thread somewhere. quite possibly by wm
about the army circle thing...han on ill go find it
anyway i got what i needed back to photoshop i go

edit: http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=21353

if i read this right then thats what i meant about large map circles getting transfered to small map
anyway ill worry about that later

edbeard wrote:you can't just make the circles once on the large/small and keep them for the resized version. when you resize the map, many of the circles will become distorted and no longer are perfect circles. So, you'll have to do circles separately on the large and small.

I don't know how to get around this. I don't think anyone has posted something to explain if it is possible even.

Is that just with vectors? It's still cool if your circles are just white circles (ie not vectors), right?

cairnswk wrote:

edbeard wrote:you can't just make the circles once on the large/small and keep them for the resized version. when you resize the map, many of the circles will become distorted and no longer are perfect circles. So, you'll have to do circles separately on the large and small.

I don't know how to get around this. I don't think anyone has posted something to explain if it is possible even.

i haven't found a way yet. ed. perhaps wm might know something

Nope. I make my large map and then save off an image without text and circles. I then resize that image to a smaller version and read the text and circles. It takes work but it is the only way I know how.

Plus it looks better anyway.

WM

InkL0sed wrote:

edbeard wrote:you can't just make the circles once on the large/small and keep them for the resized version. when you resize the map, many of the circles will become distorted and no longer are perfect circles. So, you'll have to do circles separately on the large and small.

I don't know how to get around this. I don't think anyone has posted something to explain if it is possible even.

Is that just with vectors? It's still cool if your circles are just white circles (ie not vectors), right?

It's all due to how Photoshop and other graphics programs resize an image (I'm not sure about vectors). When the program shrinks something down, some of the pixels have to be sort of "blended together" so the image can be downsized to the correct # of pixels. But when a pixel on the edge of an army circle gets blended with one outside the circle, the pixels get slightly stretched outside of the circle. The circle is then distorted, no longer equal on both sides, something like this:

"Not Flattened" is what you get when you shrink the image while keeping all of the layers in your image separate. "Flattened" is when you smush the layers together 1st before shrinking the image. Although "not flattened" yields a worse result, both of the circles are still really unequal. So, the only way to get truly equal circles is to do them separately on the large and small maps, like edbeard said.
A good example for why this happens is with a grid. Do a Google image search for "grid", and put the 1st image that comes up on Photoshop. Shrink it down to about 400 pixels in height. Some of the lines in the grid should look thicker than others, because of how the lines get blended with the white space.
I'm pretty sure the explanation is something like this. Hope it makes sense.

^^ vectors have no lost anyhow when shrunk down so you would still have perfect round circles

Lone.prophet wrote:^^ vectors have no lost anyhow when shrunk down so you would still have perfect round circles

I agree that vector based images and shapes have the ability to maintain there shapes when being resized up or down. The issue is that when a 24 pixel diameter circle is shrunk it might not still be an even numbered diameter (even with vectors).

To make sure your circles are properly made, you will need to do them for both the large and the small map individually.

WM

Another alternative is not to do army circles at all. Thats usually my take on the subject

gimil wrote:Another alternative is not to do army circles at all. Thats usually my take on the subject

I agree, but only if the landscape behind it is detailed enough that covering any of it would ruin the visuals.

wcaclimbing wrote:

gimil wrote:Another alternative is not to do army circles at all. Thats usually my take on the subject

I agree, but only if the landscape behind it is detailed enough that covering any of it would ruin the visuals.

Actually, I'd say it's the opposite - you need the army circles when the background is very busy and it becomes hard to make out the army count. A map works better without army circles if the background is flat.

As for the rest of the conversation, armies circles are just something of a pain in the ass no matter how you cut it.

i hate army circles because they spoil the feeling of the map also i hate the army numbers for the same reason. i'd much rather love to see actual troops.

centering them is crappy too but not that difficult.

This solution to army circle re-sizing in photoshop seems so simple that it may not work, so somebody tell me if I'm nuts:

1. Create your large map with 24 pix army circles as filled paths (vectors)
2. Size your 800 px wide large map down to 600 pixels (75%)
3. You should (emphasis on should) now have 18 pixel wide circle paths (18 = 75% of 24). Lose the old circle layer and refill the circle paths to create 18 pix wide cricles.
5. Put a 3 pixel stroke or outer glow around your circle layer(s), using the same color as the circle fill, to pump your circles back up to 24 pixels. (Or you could use a 2 pixel stroke to make them 22 pixels.)

Am I missing something that would keep this from working?

That would work. I love layer effects, they make so many things easier.

oaktown wrote:This solution to army circle re-sizing in photoshop seems so simple that it may not work, so somebody tell me if I'm nuts:

1. Create your large map with 24 pix army circles as filled paths (vectors)
2. Size your 800 px wide large map down to 600 pixels (75%)
3. You should (emphasis on should) now have 18 pixel wide circle paths (18 = 75% of 24). Lose the old circle layer and refill the circle paths to create 18 pix wide cricles.
5. Put a 3 pixel stroke or outer glow around your circle layer(s), using the same color as the circle fill, to pump your circles back up to 24 pixels. (Or you could use a 2 pixel stroke to make them 22 pixels.)

Am I missing something that would keep this from working?

The bolded part is where you might still get the distortion you normally get. Also, with the stroke you use, it may interfere with other layer effects you put on the circles (if any).

if you put a outer glow on a small circle however you dont get a "perfect" big circle, you will miss some pixels in you circle than

Lone.prophet wrote:if you put a outer glow on a small circle however you dont get a "perfect" big circle, you will miss some pixels in you circle than

Yeah, you're right - I was just playing around with. But at that size we're working with I don't think you'd notice the imperfections on most maps. It would be particularly hard to notice on the grungier maps like Berlin or High Seas or, um, gee I guess I'm the only one that likes grungy maps. Even Dust Bowl is clean!

no it isnt really noticeble though some people like to nittpick

Check this out! I made the army circles 1pxl, and then used an outer glow to make it bigger.
http://www.youshare.com/view.php?file=Untitled-1.psd
Since you cant edit the way the circles look with the outer glow, i duplicated the layer and then hid the original one.

That should work for small maps right?

Kaplowitz wrote:Check this out! I made the army circles 1pxl, and then used an outer glow to make it bigger.
http://www.youshare.com/view.php?file=Untitled-1.psd
Since you cant edit the way the circles look with the outer glow, i duplicated the layer and then hid the original one.

That should work for small maps right?

no idea

do a test on your Switzerland map or any real map and show us large and small with circles

try to center some 88s on both and see if it works.

then post up your results for us to see!

Kaplowitz wrote:Check this out! I made the army circles 1pxl, and then used an outer glow to make it bigger.
http://www.youshare.com/view.php?file=Untitled-1.psd
Since you cant edit the way the circles look with the outer glow, i duplicated the layer and then hid the original one.

That should work for small maps right?

In theory, yes... the 1 pixel circle is an interesting twist. The concern is the same as that mentioned above - that a "glow" does not always give you a perfect circle. If this is the case, the 12 or 13 pixel glow that you're using may just exacerbate the problem.

I've found that the bigger issue is that when you size the original circle it sometimes sizes down imperfectly, and using a 1 pixel circle may or may not solve this. In Seas I'm experimenting with sizing a path rather than a circle, since a path should be scalable without altering the shape... then I'm refilling the path. It seems to be working better than just scaling a round bunch of pixels, but since I'm working against an imperfect background I can't tell for sure... it might be worth an evening of somebody's time to goof around with some circles in photoshop and post their findings.

With the amount of time you would be moving and adjusting your outer glow and making sure the text is not overlapping the circle, you might as well just redo them from scratch for the small map.

If you do that you are guaranteed that they will be proper.
It really only takes about 10 minutes for me to make teh small map once the large is done.

1) Save your large map in photoshop. (circles, text ,everything)
2) Now save a copy with no text or circles (just the map names large_map_only)
3) Make a new PSD file called small map (with the proper scaled dimensions for the small map)
4) In the small map, goto File>Place. This will allow you to add the large_map_only file (it will automatically be scaled and centered, assuming your canvas size is correct)
5) Now you have 2 PSD files open. Drag the folder you have all the text in from eh large PSD file onto the small PSD file (make sure you use folders to hold groups of data: names, legend, continent groups, etc) It really helps
6) Resize the text to fit the smaller map. (By using the actual text, photoshop is actually re rendering it instead of just scaling the text from the larger map. You now have much more control)
7) Make 1 army circle that you like and then copy it to each territory.

Again this is how I have done every map I have made with army circles. It is fast and easy to do. If you find a better way let me know.

BUT this way is so fast that even if you get the glow to work I will probably still do this because I KNOW this method works and gives perfect results.

WM