Conquer Club

I've posted the following thread in GD, following the locking of a post by Cairnswk which merely announced that several maps are soon to go live.
I expect that my thread in GD will also be locked, but I think that General Discussion should not exclude announcements about maps; and I also feel that the Foundry deserves a thread to be stickied in GD... perhaps something regarding "Foundry Announcements".

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=50978

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It's difficult to bring people into the Map Foundry to view maps in progress and provide input, yet it seems, although this is "General" Discussion (regarding all things related to CC), any attempts by Foundry members to "Discuss" maps or draw interest, are resisted by the mods.
Not to be too derisive, but I feel like the Forums belong to the Members and when Foundry "members" (who contribute a great deal to CC's success) are excluded from even announcing in GD that several maps are about to go live, it seems as though they are excluded from contributing to GD...

A couple points here:
1) I'm not suggesting that GD be overun with Foundry posts. -But the Foundry is organized in a manner which takes maps from Ideas to Final Forge. It's basically the workshop for maps in progress.
2) Several maps that have gone live (i.e. - The recent Classic Revamp) were met with an outcry from the General Community. -Probably due to the fact that most members had no idea they were about to go live.

This post is directly related to the thread by Cairnswk, which merely announced that 7 new maps are about to go live, and was locked by Twill.
It seemed to me a slap in the face and somewhat disrespectful to one of CC's most talented cartographers.

If the majority of members feel I'm wrong in stating this I'll go along my merry way, but surely there's room in GD for a simple announcement regarding maps?
Perhaps there's even the possibilty to have a Foundry Announcement thread stickied in GD?

im all for it

I just read Twill's reason. What a load of horses***. Even after the snafu that was the Classic touchup, he thinks that FINISHED Foundry projects don't need to be announced to the public in any way other than "zomg, New!" on the map tag? Either Twill just doesn't get it, or he's being a derisive S.O.B. I'm leaning more toward the former, but you never know.

Thanks for bringing my attention to this, Elijah. You're right that we should not be blocked from informing the outer population of CC of the awesome work that gets done in the Foundry. Twill needs to face the facts that the vast majority of CC has never, and likely will never, set foot in the Foundry unless given damn good reasons to do so. Like...knowing that 7 more maps are coming for live play in the next week or so and wanting a strategic head start. Oh wait...

Guys twills just trying to keep the forum in order and organised. Its not great but hold out and we'll get something for you guys to use for external advertising ASAP.

I think most everybody agrees with you Elijah... believe it or not, I think even Twill agrees with you. I've not been keeping up very closely with what the promised new system will be, but I think Twill is drawing the line between discussion and an announcement. Cairnswk's post was an announcement, and he gave suggestions for how to more appropriately post an announcement.

But yes, we are definitely in need of a system for getting the word out about new maps and revamps. The recent snafu with Classic led to many behind-the-scenes discussions and we hopefully will be seeing some updates soon.

oaktown wrote:But yes, we are definitely in need of a system for getting the word out about new maps and revamps. The recent snafu with Classic led to many behind-the-scenes discussions and we hopefully will be seeing some updates soon.

Indeed Oaktown! Indeed! Stay tuned, Foundry Folks!


--Andy

Yes guys,,,thanks for support on this one.

I do think some general announcement of some sort is needed for the general populous who visit GD and not the Map Foundry.
I agree and disagree with Twill's lock of the thread, but this has been explained for a reason, however, without calling it hogggwash, i would say there was nothing wrong with my advertisement in the GD. I was simply following through with updating the information in the Maps in Development thread. From Twill's reasoning, i would entirely understand if i had promoted my own maps exclusively in that topic, but this was not the case.

I also understand that Twill is attempting to keep the forums tidy, but if my announcement falls outside of the GD guidelines, then I'd like to know what is General Discussion all about. Surely an announcement about the very thing that people come into this site to use i.e. the maps in live play, can't be restricted to the Foundry alone nor the Game Finder page listing.

I was not involved in any way with the re-hash of Classic map, but understand the frustration that everyone had when they found out.

I have long advocated that the navigation on this site (sorry lackattack and others involved) leaves something to be desired. And this was partly the reason that the link to the Foundry in Map Statistics topics in GD was placed on that page. Unfortunately, there was lack of follow-up to that with that topic not sticked for whatever reason.

But I have also advocated that the Maps Foundry link should be indexed at the very top of the General Index (after Announcements) i.e. #1 instead of being #10 on the list. No wonder people don't bother to visit the Foundry when the link to Map Foundry is three-quarters of the length down the Forum page, instead of being at the top. Maps are the life-blood of this site, and GD should come after the Maps link at number 2 position. However I doubt if that re-organisation will eventuate, possibly because of the programming to change it all now.

So if that possibly is excluded, then something concrete should be done and i believe is being investigated and possible implementation follow-through will occur. I hope it eventually gets to the stage where everyone will know what maps are coming up for liveplay in whatever forum they visit, so they can investigate and have some say about whatever concerns them well before the live play happens.

And I don't think these new implementation thoughts and possibilities should be the exlusive realm of the mods or Andy or Lackattack or Twill. They should be thrown open to general discussion. After all, one is more likely to obtain a better outcome if there is a collective approach to ideas rather than a limited group nutting these things out. Sure it might take more time, but in the end it is the result that counts, as long as it is achievable.

Afterall, if topics about Invitation to Oz players for an upcoming games event in Melbourne and Satellite Tournament for 20th IRTOC can be stickied at the top of the GD thread, then yes probably Map Makers are discriminated against. One could argue (without wanting to be too controversial and I'm sure this won't go down very well but I'll say it anyways) that announcements for external promotion get the go ahead, but internal promotion is suppressed.

I agree with you guys,I must say that when people in GD open some topic to anounce that these and these player become General,Major or other rank,then these irelevant things is OK for Twili,i mean to say who care if some player become Cook or Private,or other Irelevant topic in GD,but Anounce 7 new maps(he dont glorify any of these new map)its complete normal topic in GD. Double standard,some irelevant things is Ok,but very relevant things for GD is not OK.

Well-said Cairnswk!

Those members who put in the grueling time and go through what is often a very frustrating and disheartening process to contribute a map to this site should be shown a higher degree of appreciation. -First and foremost, that appreciation should come in the form of appropriately placed stickies and not being denied attempts to generate greater interest in maps by the General CC Membership!

Now aim loking first page in GD,and i see that half thing is Anouncment(Congratulation General and other similar things)
Also i see that two tournament have privileges to be stikied in GD!!
When Cairnswk open hes topic about MAp mowment he dont get these privilege,and these is very relevant topic in GD.
Also when some map maker want to anounce hes map,then he redirect and move to Foundry Discusion,but i think that every tournament have also hes Tournament discusion forum,and he can be remove also to these forum.

cairnswk wrote:Y

But I have also advocated that the Maps Foundry link should be indexed at the very top of the General Index (after Announcements) i.e. #1 instead of being #10 on the list. No wonder people don't bother to visit the Foundry when the link to Map Foundry is three-quarters of the length down the Forum page, instead of being at the top. Maps are the life-blood of this site, and GD should come after the Maps link at number 2 position. However I doubt if that re-organisation will eventuate, possibly because of the programming to change it all now.

Im pretty sure that this can be changed in seconds on phpBB, and it would help us a lot. Honestly, the Map Foundry could practically be a sub-forum of GD (no, i dont actually want that) because it is definitely discussion about CC. The production of future maps is more important than people discussing strategy and such.

even if it is put first the map foundry will still not attract more users. remember the map foundry is above the chatter box and flame wars and yet those 2 are among the most visited.
we have to face the fact that people simply don't want to come here. there have been tons of threads in GD about maps and every time people posted stuff like "who let you out of the foundry" or "don't invade GD with your maps"

True, and thats also why i always pushed to have some sort of advertisement outside the forums. There are potential map makers who dont even know that the Foundry exists because they dont go to the forums.

cairnswk wrote:But I have also advocated that the Maps Foundry link should be indexed at the very top of the General Index (after Announcements) i.e. #1 instead of being #10 on the list. No wonder people don't bother to visit the Foundry when the link to Map Foundry is three-quarters of the length down the Forum page, instead of being at the top. Maps are the life-blood of this site, and GD should come after the Maps link at number 2 position. However I doubt if that re-organisation will eventuate, possibly because of the programming to change it all now.

I am presently admin'ing a phpBB3 forum. Moving forum order around is a simple set of mouse clicks in the Admin Panel, just as Kaplowitz said. Moving the Foundry would be easy, but I partially agree with DiM that it won't change much.

THAT SAID, I have uncovered a LOT of interesting information as I was working on unique posters for map topics. Each map has random outsiders come in and either hand generic support, or bit-part feedback to that map, and only that map (I think I came across just one exception, qwert's Imperium Romanum). We need to start turning map ideas and map looks into advertisement vehicles, because it's not the Foundry that sells to random GD Joes, it's the maps in progress in the Foundry. The VAST MAJORITY of generic support ("I like this map", "when can I play it?") comes from those GD Joes who poked into the Foundry and saw something interesting. With Support being a major part of C.A.'s determining the maturity of a map, we should aim to "sell" the maps, and not the mapmaking.

Hey, I really need to get this Foundry Newsletter thing started then, considering all of what I just posted...

Kaplowitz wrote:True, and thats also why i always pushed to have some sort of advertisement outside the forums. There are potential map makers who dont even know that the Foundry exists because they dont go to the forums.

Something similar to this is coming, though of course, it is exclusive to as who can announce it, but all this is a discussion for a little bit later. Hang in...I'm trying all I can to get the Foundry more love.


--Andy

AndyDufresne wrote:

Kaplowitz wrote:True, and thats also why i always pushed to have some sort of advertisement outside the forums. There are potential map makers who dont even know that the Foundry exists because they dont go to the forums.

Something similar to this is coming, though of course, it is exclusive to as who can announce it, but all this is a discussion for a little bit later. Hang in...I'm trying all I can to get the Foundry more love.


--Andy

Good... because the Foundry's heart is lonely and bitter. A loyal significant other would be perfect for it.