Soaps Role Madness! Town Wins!

[pmchugh]

Hmmm this has become weird.

Here is my full story.

I am the Hatter. I Had 3 hats to give.

1 is the night cap. Which allows the user to use his nightpower at day. I gave it to kong on N1 and he gave it to vot n2. Player knows who gave him the hat

2 is the beer cap. This makes a player drunk and also allows them to have an investigation with 50-50 chance of the righr results. I had no idea how to use this one as 50-50 seems as good as guessing so I gave them to strike d1. I am not sure if he was forced to act as a drunk but he did. Which i believe it was smart way to figure who gave it to him as player does not know who gave him the hat.

3. A hat which can give a player a night restriction. I gave it to Dega last night. Hadent used it before and player does not know who gave it to him.

My story is n1 I gave 2 hats 1 to kong and 1 to strike.

N2 I got Jailed by the jailer. I could not make night actions but also I could speak with the jailer. I thought it was pmc. But now it has to be strike or something doesnt add up. The jailer told me he visites dega N1 and revealed me he told him he was hypnotist. That way I knew his role.

N3 I gave post restriction to Dega. He had to post the same stat I gave him 3 times.

So I was sure pmc was the jailer. But now. I am kinda torn between gega and pmc. The jailer also suspected hypnotist was not a town role btw.

Right, so it was you who gave dega that command to write? That makes more sense.

The jailer must have been strike, because it's definitely not any of the rest of us and I can't believe you would both make this up.

I am honestly believing everyone at this point, because now traf is giving independent evidence that dega was claiming hypnotist on night 1 and what is the point of a mafia hypnotist? Could it be third party? Could trafs role be non town?

I would also like to point out I am cop confirmed townie and mod confirmed squeaky clean.

I can't imagine vot being scum because he outed loose, swang and town outed me. I really need your help here vot.

[pmchugh]

The kills just don't make sense to me, I feel like there should be more. For example, where is the arsonist kill?

The arsonist died on N1.
Or haven't you been paying attention?

They were alive night 1 to perform a kill.

[pmchugh]

Ok, something doesn't seem right here.

This:

I may as well claim. I am a vigilante. I killed no one nights 1 and 3, and I killed strike night 2. Its possible multiple people killed strike though due to the fact he was janitored.

doesn't seem to fit with this:

Role name: Vigilante
Alignment: Town-aligned
Tags: Extra KP, Night Power, Visits

Each night, may visit and kill a player

If the Vigilante and the Mafia night meeting target the same player, both the visited player and the Vigilante will die

So why didn't pmc die on N2?

I have never heard that rule. My role just said vigilante, no description.

[degaston]

The kills just don't make sense to me, I feel like there should be more. For example, where is the arsonist kill?

The arsonist died on N1.
Or haven't you been paying attention?

They were alive night 1 to perform a kill.

It doesn't look like arsonist is in the mafia.gg list of roles, so apparently DDS has been pulling roles from more than one source.
But in any case, my knowledge of arsonist comes from https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Arsonist, which says they can only perform a kill every other night at most. One night to prime a target, and one night to ignite them.

So our arsonist should never have had a chance to kill anyone because he died on N1.
But why are you asking about him on D4?

[pmchugh]

The kills just don't make sense to me, I feel like there should be more. For example, where is the arsonist kill?

The arsonist died on N1.
Or haven't you been paying attention?

They were alive night 1 to perform a kill.

It doesn't look like arsonist is in the mafia.gg list of roles, so apparently DDS has been pulling roles from more than one source.
But in any case, my knowledge of arsonist comes from https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Arsonist, which says they can only perform a kill every other night at most. One night to prime a target, and one night to ignite them.

So our arsonist should never have had a chance to kill anyone because he died on N1.
But why are you asking about him on D4?

I thought it was delayed, didn't realise they needed two visits. What a horrible role. We need a ban on mods giving 3rd party serial killers handicaps. I am asking because I want to know who killed who each night, because I want to know whether there is one mafia left or not, and how all the kills happened. Information is important. You seem to be desperately trying to find me guilty.

I wonder if we can agree traf and vot are town, whether we just no lynch to win this.

I kill dega, dega has to kill vot, traf is the only player alive and wins the game. If I am lying and actually wolf then we wake up tomorrow with 3 players and you can just lynch me. I guess last mafia role could mess with this, like if dega is bulletproof or something.

[pmchugh]

Actually I would be alive too with traf in the scenario I mentioned, but I am town in that scenario. Only wouldn't work if dega and me are both independent non town aligned killing factions, which I think you have to agree is impossible at this point.

[pmchugh]

Although my gut tells me it's dega, I do have to consider a possible reason for no mafia kill night 2 is that traf was Jailed.

[degaston]

I must say pmc looks a bit more suspicious than Dega rn. Can we figure out how all the deaths happened?

N1:
Rag/Arsonist - Shot, probably by mafia
Charle/Tracker - Stabbed, probably by Dev/Serial killer

N2:
Strike/(Jailer?) - Probably killed and cleaned up by swang? Also tageted by pmc???
Fusi/Doc - No cause of death (oversight by DDS?). Maybe killed by Dev?

N3:
Kong/Bodyguard - No cause of death
Dev/SK - No cause of death
Pixar/substitute Tracker - Shot, presumably by mafia.

I assume either Dev targeted Kong, or Kong was protecting Vot, and Dev targeted him. Probably the latter, because a Vot investigation of Dev probably would have outed him. I don't understand what killed Dev. Some other unknown mechanic?

FP'd by pmc.
At this point, I assume that there is a mafia left, and that they're investigation immune (otherwise, they probably would have gone after the cop), so I don't think being cop cleared is much of an alibi anymore.

I believe Vot (and myself ) are town, so from my perspective, that would mean it has to be either pmc or Traf. I never assume that I know what the mod would or wouldn't do, so I won't assume that either of your roles necessarily indicates a particular alignment.

But between pmc and Traf, I feel like pmc has been more suspicious the whole game, and that there are more questions surrounding his actions and statements.

[pmchugh]

Still working through this out loud, where are the mafia PRs?

Surely they should have a roleblocker or something. Goon (in role madness) + janitor + hypnotist??

Maybe strike was mafia jailkeeper, I have seen that before. Which would mean loose was real fall guy and EW push on loose day 1 was for thar reason. Although strike telling traf that hypnotist might not be town night 2 would be weird as it would put suspicion on a scum buddy. Also, why didn't he reveal who he was to traf? Is it barred?

That janitor of strike has really messed with me, I needed that as firm ground to evolve my thinking.

Also just realised that jailkeeper and jailer are different on mafia gg. Does anyone know how strikes role actually worked?

[pmchugh]

I must say pmc looks a bit more suspicious than Dega rn. Can we figure out how all the deaths happened?

N1:
Rag/Arsonist - Shot, probably by mafia
Charle/Tracker - Stabbed, probably by Dev/Serial killer

N2:
Strike/(Jailer?) - Probably killed and cleaned up by swang? Also tageted by pmc???
Fusi/Doc - No cause of death (oversight by DDS?). Maybe killed by Dev?

N3:
Kong/Bodyguard - No cause of death
Dev/SK - No cause of death
Pixar/substitute Tracker - Shot, presumably by mafia.

I assume either Dev targeted Kong, or Kong was protecting Vot, and Dev targeted him. Probably the latter, because a Vot investigation of Dev probably would have outed him. I don't understand what killed Dev. Some other unknown mechanic?

FP'd by pmc.
At this point, I assume that there is a mafia left, and that they're investigation immune (otherwise, they probably would have gone after the cop), so I don't think being cop cleared is much of an alibi anymore.

I believe Vot (and myself ) are town, so from my perspective, that would mean it has to be either pmc or Traf. I never assume that I know what the mod would or wouldn't do, so I won't assume that either of your roles necessarily indicates a particular alignment.

But between pmc and Traf, I feel like pmc has been more suspicious the whole game, and that there are more questions surrounding his actions and statements.

Night 3, I assumed the bodyguard killed dev as he tried to kill vot. Mafiascum calls this elite bodyguard, but mafiagg seems to have a slightly different mechanic that also kills the killer: https://mafiagg.fandom.com/wiki/Bodyguard

Then pix was just killed by mafia. I wouldn't put too much stock in vot being alive because Tracker is just as good a target as cop and town roles were not known so it was safer to kill pix.

[degaston]

Also just realised that jailkeeper and jailer are different on mafia gg. Does anyone know how strikes role actually worked?

Both Traf and I are confirming that there was a Jailer. I'm assuming it was strike because we never saw that role flip, and there's no reason for anyone remaining to deny it. I had never seen a jailer who could interrogate their prisoners before. I thought this description fits, but now I notice something:

Role name: Jailer
Alignment: Town-aligned
Tags: Meeting, Night Power, On-Condemn Power, Roleblocker, Visits

If no one is condemned during the day, may choose to jail a player

The following night, the jailed player is taken from any night meeting they attend and instead meets with the Jailer

Identity is hidden from the jailed player during their meeting

Ends the meeting by deciding whether to visit and kill the jailed player or not

While jailed, players cannot receive items, perform new actions, or be killed by players other than the Jailer

LC was lynched on D2, so how was the jailer able to jail Traf on N2?
I think it must be DDS doing his own thing again, because Traf seemed to know my role on D3.

FP'd by pmc

[TrafalgarLaw01]

This is what the Jailer told me about his role.

He could interrogate people at night. and if he saw they were not coperative he could kill them. I don't know whether that is true or not. But its what he told me. Also DDS said you are jailed u cannot make night actions but u are being interrogated, everything u say will be given word by word to the jailer.

He said he visited Deg N1. How else I could know that and his role? it has to be strike indeed. I thought it was strike first but when he died with no role. I assumed it was pmc. as when I asked him who he was he just said his identity would be cleat on the next day.

I do believe maybe a no lynch can grants us victory here. but only if we all know what to do. well mostly depends on you two trusting vot and myself as town.

I can quote myself pointing that I suggested my hatter role since D1. I could not find my role on the mafia gg, so thats why i have been saying dds might have made roles up.

pmc what u mean u had no description? all roles have some kind of description

[degaston]

No lynch could work... Unless Traf is the scum, or pmc is scum with an extra killing power.

I think Vot probably needs to decide which way to go.

[Votanic]

Wow, huge amount of evidence, both real and fake.

I certainly have questions... but I want to make sure I ask the right ones first.

I'm going to go over this with the proverbial 'fine-toothed comb'.
A complete re-read, taking notes as I go.

I'll be back.

[degaston]

pmc is claiming town was given a Veteran and a Vigilante with unlimited kills? That seems like an awful lot of night-killing potential for town.
Especially when you factor in the 3p Arsonist and SK.

[degaston]

pmc is claiming town was given a Veteran and a Vigilante with unlimited kills? That seems like an awful lot of night-killing potential for town.
Especially when you factor in the 3p Arsonist and SK.

And apparently the Jailer could also kill?!
It's surprising we made it to D3!

[pmchugh]

This is what the Jailer told me about his role.

He could interrogate people at night. and if he saw they were not coperative he could kill them. I don't know whether that is true or not. But its what he told me. Also DDS said you are jailed u cannot make night actions but u are being interrogated, everything u say will be given word by word to the jailer.

He said he visited Deg N1. How else I could know that and his role? it has to be strike indeed. I thought it was strike first but when he died with no role. I assumed it was pmc. as when I asked him who he was he just said his identity would be cleat on the next day.

I do believe maybe a no lynch can grants us victory here. but only if we all know what to do. well mostly depends on you two trusting vot and myself as town.

I can quote myself pointing that I suggested my hatter role since D1. I could not find my role on the mafia gg, so thats why i have been saying dds might have made roles up.

pmc what u mean u had no description? all roles have some kind of description

I checked again and it said I was like batman except I kill people, but it had zero mechanical description. I think DDS knew I knew what a vigilante was so didn't bother.

And yeah there are a lot of killing roles in this game, don't forget sonic was a PGO. This game could have lasted like 2 nights.

The jailer description seems like strike was town indeed. So I guess I was just horribly wrong this game. Sorry strike. RIP.

[degaston]

Night 3, I assumed the bodyguard killed dev as he tried to kill vot. Mafiascum calls this elite bodyguard, but mafiagg seems to have a slightly different mechanic that also kills the killer: https://mafiagg.fandom.com/wiki/Bodyguard

Yes, Kong being an elite bodyguard would explain it, but to me, that just seems very... unlikely.
I'm used to the "normal" mafiascum bodyguard who dies protecting their target.

Then there's the mafia.gg bodyguard:

Role name: Bodyguard
Alignment: Town-aligned
Tags: Extra KP, Night Power, Protective, Visits

Each night, may visit and protect a player from being killed that night

The first time they protect a player, the killer will die

The second time they protect a player, the Bodyguard will die

If multiple attempts are made at once, the chosen player will die

Which reverses it, but still, only one person dies.

So why would DDS go with that obscure variant, when there are already so many killers out there?
It feels to me like something else killed either Dev or Kong.

[pmchugh]

Night 3, I assumed the bodyguard killed dev as he tried to kill vot. Mafiascum calls this elite bodyguard, but mafiagg seems to have a slightly different mechanic that also kills the killer: https://mafiagg.fandom.com/wiki/Bodyguard

Yes, Kong being an elite bodyguard would explain it, but to me, that just seems very... unlikely.
I'm used to the "normal" mafiascum bodyguard who dies protecting their target.

Then there's the mafia.gg bodyguard:

Role name: Bodyguard
Alignment: Town-aligned
Tags: Extra KP, Night Power, Protective, Visits

Each night, may visit and protect a player from being killed that night

The first time they protect a player, the killer will die

The second time they protect a player, the Bodyguard will die

If multiple attempts are made at once, the chosen player will die

Which reverses it, but still, only one person dies.

So why would DDS go with that obscure variant, when there are already so many killers out there?
It feels to me like something else killed either Dev or Kong.

I don't see any other explanation, unless there are two remaining evil killers.

[pmchugh]

No lynch could work... Unless Traf is the scum, or pmc is scum with an extra killing power.

I think Vot probably needs to decide which way to go.

This could be a fun game of chicken.

Traf, from my oerspective, if you are town, then dega must be scum/3rd party. Can you explain degas claim in a way that makes sense as wolf? Like he claims hypnotist to strike night 1, did he actually use it on swang or was the whole thing set up from night 1? Do you think he is 3rd party or mafia?

[degaston]

Yeah, my role is a little lame, considering it's a one-shot, but it's all I've got.

I suppose it might have worked out better for me if I'd hit a townie to confirm my ability, but even that wouldn't have confirmed my alignment. Pmc, on the other hand, hasn't really confirmed his role in any way. He's been getting a pass since the cop investigation (which could have been tampered with), and has kept his claim to himself until today.

This is just speculation, but I think that if mafia had a goon and a janitor, then the third role in a game like this would probably have to be fairly powerful. Traf has proved that he gives out hats, and knows I claimed my role on N1, and it's hard to see how a hypnotist would be very useful for scum. All I know about pmc right now is that he says he can kill.

[TrafalgarLaw01]

No lynch could work... Unless Traf is the scum, or pmc is scum with an extra killing power.

I think Vot probably needs to decide which way to go.

This could be a fun game of chicken.

Traf, from my oerspective, if you are town, then dega must be scum/3rd party. Can you explain degas claim in a way that makes sense as wolf? Like he claims hypnotist to strike night 1, did he actually use it on swang or was the whole thing set up from night 1? Do you think he is 3rd party or mafia?

Well in my mind its either you or dega (cause unles we got a third party cop, which would make this so hard have to be that way).
I mena ur vigilante roll explain certain deaths. But I feel Dega has been a tad more invested on revealing the truth. So I'm not sure.

Thats why I'm ok with the no Lynch. If u kill deg as vigilante and deg kills me or vot. its 2 townies left and we win.
And if u are mafia u kill one of us 3 and we lynch you tomorrow.
So as I said unless Vot is a 3rd party. Which i believe to be highly unlikely, that should grant us the victory.

Of course that is if u believe I'm town as well.

[pmchugh]

If I am scum, can anyone explain DDS saying the person who killed strike was squeaky clean?

I also think its unfair to say I've been less interested in getting to the truth, I've been very actively the whole game putting out theories.

[pmchugh]

Hmmm this has become weird.

Here is my full story.

I am the Hatter. I Had 3 hats to give.

1 is the night cap. Which allows the user to use his nightpower at day. I gave it to kong on N1 and he gave it to vot n2. Player knows who gave him the hat

2 is the beer cap. This makes a player drunk and also allows them to have an investigation with 50-50 chance of the righr results. I had no idea how to use this one as 50-50 seems as good as guessing so I gave them to strike d1. I am not sure if he was forced to act as a drunk but he did. Which i believe it was smart way to figure who gave it to him as player does not know who gave him the hat.

3. A hat which can give a player a night restriction. I gave it to Dega last night. Hadent used it before and player does not know who gave it to him.

My story is n1 I gave 2 hats 1 to kong and 1 to strike.

N2 I got Jailed by the jailer. I could not make night actions but also I could speak with the jailer. I thought it was pmc. But now it has to be strike or something doesnt add up. The jailer told me he visites dega N1 and revealed me he told him he was hypnotist. That way I knew his role.

N3 I gave post restriction to Dega. He had to post the same stat I gave him 3 times.

So I was sure pmc was the jailer. But now. I am kinda torn between gega and pmc. The jailer also suspected hypnotist was not a town role btw.

When you say player knows, does that mean, kong knows you gave him the hat, or vot knows kong gave him the hat? Also, can the hats keep being passed on? Like, can dega now pass on the post restriction hat?

[Votanic]

If I am scum, can anyone explain DDS saying the person who killed strike was squeaky clean?

Actually, that sounds like DDS was making a joke about swang the janitor, not you.
Why do you think it would be you?

Frankly, I am not seeing any independent evidence for PMC being a vigilante... though he would still know all the details of strike's killing if he was scum...

@Traf: Why did you have dega say that line about hypnotist three times?

Earlier I said that night kills precede investigations in order of play, but that may not be true... At least one rule online states that kills should be treated as happening at the end of the night. This is important because the jailer (Strike?) met with Traf before being killed the same night. ...However, in that case, I should have received an investigation PM about Devante... but maybe DDS didn't bother since it did become a moot point since Devante role was publicly known at his death.
Also the '9 left alive' was an error, since it went down to '4 left alive' after only four deaths.

That jailer role seems very powerful... jailing/protecting, night communication, and an optional kill!
Maybe there are modifications to that I still don't undersatnd.
If anyone has any more details to add about that, please do.

By the way, DDS informed me that I could still use the Night Cap again today!
I was shocked too.... I thought surely such a powerful object would be limited to just one use...
But since I could, I asked for an investigation on dega. He came back 'innocent'.

So now PMC is 'not suspicious' and dega is 'innocent'...
One simple explanantion is that PMC or dega is an investigation-proof scum Godfather.

We should consider that PMC and dega could both be scum. That would only be 4 scum.... not unreasonable in a 'Madness' game... but then I need to explain two false investigation results... I can't link them to the Night Cap since LC, PMC and Devante were all night investigations, while swang and dega were day (Night Cap) investigations...

As for any lingering doubts about LC's role... vanilla scum is kind-of an oxymoron. Scum always has a PR...so Role Madness doesn't require that scum have additional PRs... though Janitor and Godfather would be two standard and likely ones...

Yes, it is true, the role of 'Fall Guy' makes NO SENSE as a logical/possible false claim... but it could have be still been chosen as such accidentally... or maybe even deliberately by DDS as a giveaway for those paying attention.

The other idea is that LC did somehow know he was a Fall Guy... but that becomes a distorted/useless form of the role. One that even LC should have known to reveal to town...[i] And no, it couldn't have been accompanied by a post restriction... because LC wa sable to claim it.

Anyway, Yes, I do have a good idea of who I want to lynch today... and I think we should do a lymch.
But first, I would like to hear everybody's reply to my post.