WWII Europe

[pamoa]

About first page the only thing you have to do to help other people watching your thread is to change the image link from

[img]http://i195.photobucket.com/...%20*.png[/img]

to

[url=http://i195.photobucket.com/... *.png]version x[/url]

thanks for poor internet access viewer!

[lt_oddball]

Agreed with Oaktown.

Anyways, I know the arrows have always been Black and Red, but would you consider altering the Black to another color that stands out a bit more on this map? Black and Red work well on the other maps, but due to all the territory names being black, they can get rather and you have to hunt for them. I'm not sure what color would be better, but something must be.

--Andy

I agree,... perhaps light blue /teal ? Or light green ?
perhaps make it the same red ?

[Qwert]

Really qwert, it wouldn't take long to change the images in the first post to links. Some folks don't have the bandwidth you do, and when I see that there are a couple dozen images loading I leave the page. This is about more than you and me.

What is Bandwidth? Any way i have many updates on WWII Europe,and maybe is better to left 4-5 new updates and rest to erase.Many other updates is in 850px and these not aceptabile and to stay only images 630px.

Anyways, I know the arrows have always been Black and Red, but would you consider altering the Black to another color that stands out a bit more on this map? Black and Red work well on the other maps, but due to all the territory names being black, they can get rather and you have to hunt for them. I'm not sure what color would be better, but something must be.


--Andy

I will se what is best.

[Qwert]

I change to all arrows to be red,because its look best.

Bonus structures
Britain
France
Vichy France
Siegfried Defence
Stalingrad army
Moscow Army
Leningrad army
its stay same,because not have any border changes.
----------------
North Italy
West Germany
Von Leeb
Von Bock
Von Rundstedth
have border changes,and need create new bonuses
-------------------------------------
East Germany
Polish Front
East prussia
Central Europe
Balkan Front
New countries need create new bonuses
-------------------------------------
Extra bonuses
Western Front-Hold Any three stars-stay same
Eastern Front-Hold all stars-stay same
Central front-Hold Berlin-i add 1 bonuses.
All extra bonuses terittory is neutral terittory,except UK1.

If anybody have sugestion for open bonuses slots,please tell.

new update

Click image to enlarge.

[whitestazn88]

i'd prefer the attack routes to be something other than red. i like the black better

[Qwert]

by whitestazn88 on Thu Aug 07, 2008 10:52 pm

i'd prefer the attack routes to be something other than red. i like the black better

Belive me red stand more visualy.
Do you have any bonus sugestion?

[lt_oddball]

My two cents on bonusses:


Instead of the usual bonusformula of lands/3 plus +1 for each open border for each bonuszone I think it is wise to downturn the bonusses of regions falling inbetween the soviet rear and those of the german heartland, and same for those inbetween the populace west allies and the german heart lands.
Firstly because those regions didnot yield immediately masses of new troops or heavy industry once it had been occupied (during active wartime), and secondly because after a while the player that grows from the east (his rear backed) and the player from the west (his rear backed) will not suffer from attacks from all wind directions on each bonuszone.


west germany : 6
east Germany : 2 (berlin gives +1 already)
Central Europe : 5
Balkan : 5
Polish : 4 (important zone)
East Prussia : 2
v Leeb : 2
v Bock : 3
v Rundstedt : 3
Italy : 3 (once controlled from east or west, it requires only few defense points)

I'd like Moscow to be downed to 5
and Stalingrad down to 4

Also, I think you can add the "hold any three stars" stars to important capitols in the east :
Budapest, Bukarest, Prague, Warschau, koenigsberg.
Shouldn't the N1 star be moved to N6 (Milan!) ? and the W6 star moved to W7 (Muenchen) ?



You know that in all the multiplayer Risk games it always ends in a gridlock of three final players.
Obviously here one will stem from the UK/France side, the other most definitely from the soviet side. The third will have originated from the central german or balkan side.
At that point, the flank players have no direct way of hitting the opposite opponent, so naturally the central player will be kicked most of the time, and is sure to wither.
So an extra bonus for the player having West and East Germany and Central europe is quite necessary.
say, an extra +4 for this ? (to include Prussia in this would be too much to ask)
Call it a "Reichs" or "Heimat" bonus

[lt_oddball]

could you try to put the army circle numbers of the siegfried zone back in the main map, and move the siegfried land markers (S4, S5, etc) in the minimap ?
Maybe it can juuuust work fine.
The benefit is that you have the map armies overview in a single glance.

Only when you want to plan attacks (which you have to do carefully anyway) you have to look on the minimap.

[pamoa]

...You know that in all the multiplayer Risk games it always ends in a gridlock of three final players.
Obviously here one will stem from the UK/France side, the other most definitely from the soviet side. The third will have originated from the central german or balkan side.
At that point, the flank players have no direct way of hitting the opposite opponent, so naturally the central player will be kicked most of the time, and is sure to wither.
So an extra bonus for the player having West and East Germany and Central europe is quite necessary.
say, an extra +4 for this ? (to include Prussia in this would be too much to ask)
Call it a "Reichs" or "Heimat" bonus

I'm not sure you should go that way.
If you are central player you know from begining you cannot wait and hope to resist in the center.
So it's imperative and historically acurate to attack first and the sooner the better.
So instead of this Heimat bonus which one would get only at the end of the game when it's too late.
You can either give an extra +1 to each central region or have 1 autodeploy army on each attacking territory (G1 C2 B1 E1 P5 B5).
It could be called hitlerian youth bonus.

I also think, like lt_oddball suggested, you should remove 1 western attack route.
Let's say W8>C2 which I could immagine is the less historically important/probable.

About first page the only thing you have to do to help other people watching your thread is to change the image link
from
[img]http://i195.photobucket.com/...%20*.png[/img]
to
[url=http://i195.photobucket.com/...%20*.png]version x[/url]

It would be cool if you can do it

[lt_oddball]

If you are central player you know from begining you cannot wait and hope to resist in the center.
So it's imperative and historically acurate to attack first and the sooner the better.
So instead of this Heimat bonus which one would get only at the end of the game when it's too late.

hmmm.. the idea is that such a bonus should work towards the endstages of the match when there are just three surviving players.
And give a 'balanced' bonus to the player facing two oponents who have the benefit of having their backs covered.
Having control of the 3 regions in early stages of the match (in a field of 8 players? difficult!) at least is comparable to the big warproduction of Germany in the early war years.

You can either give an extra +1 to each central region or have 1 autodeploy army on each attacking territory (G1 C2 B1 E1 P5 B5).
It could be called hitlerian youth bonus.

The difference is that once the soviet player has one of these territories HE gets the immediate benefit of it..whereas he is supposed to encounter "waste lands/scorched earth".

I really think the "reichs"/"Heimat" bonus for an intact central german governance fits better in the gaming/simulation experience.
Once it is breached neither the Germans or the Soviets or the Allies have benefit of it ...until they control that entire "heimat" region as well (post war idea )

I also think, like lt_oddball suggested, you should remove 1 western attack route.
Let's say W8>C2 which I could immagine is the less historically important/probable.

Patton did race through it with lightning speed, but at that time the war was realistically over.
Yeah, I agree that the west should also only have 2 invasion points..

[Androidz]

I dont think B1 Should be able to attack N2 in italy. But C2 should be able to attack N2 in italy and N1

[Qwert]

Also, I think you can add the "hold any three stars" stars to important capitols in the east :
Budapest, Bukarest, Prague, Warschau, koenigsberg.

--------------------------------------------------------------
Do you not think that these will be to manny bonuses?

Shouldn't the N1 star be moved to N6 (Milan!) ? and the W6 star moved to W7 (Muenchen) ?

---------------------------------------------------------
N1 is Milan-N6 is ligurian Army
W6 is Headquarter of OB WEST.

So an extra bonus for the player having West and East Germany and Central europe is quite necessary.
say, an extra +4 for this ? (to include Prussia in this would be too much to ask)

------------------------------------------------------------
No need for more extra bonuses,i all ready have little space in map.



---------------------------------------------------

could you try to put the army circle numbers of the siegfried zone back in the main map, and move the siegfried land markers (S4, S5, etc) in the minimap ?
Maybe it can juuuust work fine.
The benefit is that you have the map armies overview in a single glance.

Only when you want to plan attacks (which you have to do carefully anyway) you have to look on the minimap.Barbarus hic ego sum, quia non intellegor ulli.
lt_oddball

--------------------------------------
Not possible se your self in update 13 jun page 1-3 digit number.

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pamoa
I'm not sure you should go that way.
If you are central player you know from begining you cannot wait and hope to resist in the center.
So it's imperative and historically acurate to attack first and the sooner the better.
So instead of this Heimat bonus which one would get only at the end of the game when it's too late.
You can either give an extra +1 to each central region or have 1 autodeploy army on each attacking territory (G1 C2 B1 E1 P5 B5).
It could be called hitlerian youth bonus.

I also think, like lt_oddball suggested, you should remove 1 western attack route.
Let's say W8>C2 which I could immagine is the less historically important/probable.

----------------------------------------
You must understand that maps with to manny bonuses,dont good for play,because give advance to player who play first.
W8>C2? are you sure that itoddbal sugested that?


---------------------------------------------------------
west germany : 6-ok
east Germany : 2 (berlin gives +1 already)-ok
Central Europe : 5-ok
Balkan : 5-ok
Polish : 4 (important zone)-ok
East Prussia : 2-ok
v Leeb : 2-in original Eastern front map have same value,are you sure.
v Bock : 3-in original Eastern front map bonus for these country is 4,now you want to be 3,and now its even harder to hold,i think that bonuse must be same or biger.
v Rundstedt : 3-in original Eastern front map bonus for these country is 5,now you want to be 3,and now its even harder to hold,i think that bonuse must be same or biger.
Italy : 3 (once controlled from east or west, it requires only few defense points)-ok

I'd like Moscow to be downed to 5 -these is very good balanced bonuse from Eastern front,nothing change and i dont see reason why will change that,they have most terittory then other countrys(10),and from played games,its very dificulty to take,and most people main plan is not to take these country,and go for easy to hold.
and Stalingrad down to 4-its a same like Moscow-its a huge country,and people tactic is not to conquer so big countrys,and i dont se reason for these down.

l
by Androidz on Fri Aug 08, 2008 2:41 pm

I dont think B1 Should be able to attack N2 in italy. But C2 should be able to attack N2 in italy and N1

do you have more explanation why not?

[Androidz]

it dont look good + The yellow continent has so many borders already

[Qwert]

by Androidz on Fri Aug 08, 2008 8:42 pm

it dont look good + The yellow continent has so many borders already

Its look that you not good in bonuses,its easy to put attack road,when these territory is all ready need to defend,so with these attack these country not lost nothing,because you must defent from other side all ready,From other side you open one part of map for game,because without these attack,Ittaly will be lock and most vanted Country on map.

[Androidz]

by Androidz on Fri Aug 08, 2008 8:42 pm

it dont look good + The yellow continent has so many borders already

Its look that you not good in bonuses,its easy to put attack road,when these territory is all ready need to defend,so with these attack these country not lost nothing,because you must defent from other side all ready,From other side you open one part of map for game,because without these attack,Ittaly will be lock and most vanted Country on map.

I think you missread what i said. Italy is attackable from 2 places from Red Continent. But not from yellow.

But yes im not good with bonus:D

[Qwert]

I think you missread what i said. Italy is attackable from 2 places from Red Continent. But not from yellow.

But yes im not good with bonus:D

No they not attacabile:
North Italy attack borders
V4-N6 bouth way
WTF-N4 one way
B1-N2 bouth way

[Androidz]

I think you missread what i said. Italy is attackable from 2 places from Red Continent. But not from yellow.

But yes im not good with bonus:D

No they not attacabile:
North Italy attack borders
V4-N6 bouth way
WTF-N4 one way
B1-N2 bouth way

If you use my suggestion it is attackable from C1 or whatever its named. I didint state it that way now. But just ignore me if i post 3 msg after echoter map makers seem to hate me:D

[Qwert]

If you use my suggestion it is attackable from C1 or whatever its named. I didint state it that way now. But just ignore me if i post 3 msg after echoter map makers seem to hate me:D

Now you confused me.Its not possible to atatck Nort Italy from C1.

[Androidz]

If you use my suggestion it is attackable from C1 or whatever its named. I didint state it that way now. But just ignore me if i post 3 msg after echoter map makers seem to hate me:D

Now you confused me.Its not possible to atatck Nort Italy from C1.

ill try to say it again confused some of the terretories togheter. As i said i dont like the B1 and N2 can bothway attack.

In fact i think you should n2 Oneway attack B1 and make C2 one way attack N2 and N1. Or Bothway attack.

Did it become more clear?

[Qwert]

ill try to say it again confused some of the terretories togheter. As i said i dont like the B1 and N2 can bothway attack.

In fact i think you should n2 Oneway attack B1 and make C2 one way attack N2 and N1. Or Bothway attack.

Did it become more clear?

I dont get clear why you dont like B1-N2 bouth way attack.B1 is all ready open for attack with C2,and C2 is all ready connected with w7 and w8(in circle).

[Androidz]

ill try to say it again confused some of the terretories togheter. As i said i dont like the B1 and N2 can bothway attack.

In fact i think you should n2 Oneway attack B1 and make C2 one way attack N2 and N1. Or Bothway attack.

Did it become more clear?

I dont get clear why you dont like B1-N2 bouth way attack.B1 is all ready open for attack with C2,and C2 is all ready connected with w7 and w8(in circle).

Well i tought that C2 could be a border people can deploy troops on.

Why i dont like b1-n2? i dont think it looks good:D And i think it will be much better to use c2. But you diside your the mastermind here. I cant see any1 else complaining so its probbably just me.

[Qwert]

Well i tought that C2 could be a border people can deploy troops on.

Why i dont like b1-n2? i dont think it looks good:D And i think it will be much better to use c2. But you diside your the mastermind here. I cant see any1 else complaining so its probbably just me.

Its not good that C2 will be only Central attack to Western Front,if you take C2,then you will lock Nort Italy and only left G1-W2 to penetrate into Western Front,and that why is good to have more attack terittory,if you understand what Ittodbal mean,and what i apply.

[Androidz]

Well i tought that C2 could be a border people can deploy troops on.

Why i dont like b1-n2? i dont think it looks good:D And i think it will be much better to use c2. But you diside your the mastermind here. I cant see any1 else complaining so its probbably just me.

Its not good that C2 will be only Central attack to Western Front,if you take C2,then you will lock Nort Italy and only left G1-W2 to penetrate into Western Front,and that why is good to have more attack terittory,if you understand what Ittodbal mean,and what i apply.

But As i said Italy could one way attack b1.

Nevermind im talking about something way out of my leage/league (dont know how to write that)

[Qwert]

new update,i apply almost all itoddbal sugetsion for bonuses,and here map with bonuses

Click image to enlarge.

[AndyDufresne]

Would you consider perhaps abbreviating more of the continent names in the legend...so you could increase the size slightly to fill up more space, and thus increase the clarity (but reducing the general smallness and fuzziness).

I.E.

W. Germany
Siegfried Def.
N. Italy
V. France
etc.

--Andy