Power Role Draft Mafia - Town Wins!

[pmchugh]

I guess so.... I thought the mafia got the short end of the stick and could only pick the bottom two.. I wish I picked a better role, the mafia can work with a LOT of those.

This further confirms drunks role, although not his alignment.

I find you less believable than alt.

Firstly, alt would have to get lucky in guessing the role you had, cop is a decent shout but not still not assured. For him to claim correctly it would take a small amount of luck that your case does not.

Secondly, your investigation is strange. Raigan did not strike me as suspicious and most of the talk was around ghostly, surely the sensible thing to do would be to investigate him or even me. Investigating the dead is the oldest trick in the mafia book of how to fake claim cop.

Next I literally don't know how I missed this on so many rereads of the thread but here it is:

Whee Push the inactives to cliff and see if they wake up in time not to fall off!!!

You said this about the freezie wagon.. without voting. You encouraged the BW and even went as far as to suggest a lynching and yet you managed to avoid all suspicion by not voting. There is an air of a joke about this post but I think that was intended, the joking stage was clearly over and the number of votes was certainly exceeding a joking level.

On a side note while I was thinking about it a part i didnt add was what does the blue part of your PM state Alt? Since we can normally quote those, that may be a good point to test.

I don't think we are allowed to talk about this but if we are I have something to say on this subject.

My list is as follows:

1st - JOAT
2rd - cop
3rd - vigilante
4th - inventor
5th - busdriver
6th - bomb
7th - mason
8th - 1-shot governor
9th - commuter
10th - loved person
11th - watcher
12th - tracker
13th - doctor
14nd - doublevoter
15th - roleblocker

Watcher, tracker and doctor are all rather low for a townie. Care to explain the rationale behind your list?

[Djfireside]

I wont quote you but Ill just make points to each fact.

As for the freezie wagon I didnt want to jump on it and vote cause I wanted them to return and I dont necessarily like voting inactives for the sheer fact they are inactive and want to give them the benefit of coming back as I end up at hospitals alot lately and want the person to return and not push it far along to be lynchable and in the end it we got a better lynch.

As for my list:

1st - JOAT -- Had good points on each with investigative and kill if needed down the line and didnt want mafia to get it
2rd - cop -- Investigative and good for information.
3rd - vigilante -- Didnt want mafia to get it.
4th - inventor -- Thought it would be interesting and wanted to try it out.
5th - busdriver -- Havent tried it yet and figured in this game could come in useful for town.
6th - bomb -- Always a interesting one and one of my personal favorites.
7th - mason -- Sharing of information.
8th - 1-shot governor -- Didnt seem to bad
9th - commuter -- Never tried commuter and guess didnt understand much. By this point I didnt think I would get the bottom roles as mason should have covered it.
10th - loved person -- Didnt see use for it
11th - watcher -- I didnt think much of this when going through the list and discounted it in having to explain it does provide good information but I just didnt want it
12th - tracker -- same with the tracker
13th - doctor -- always fail at the doctor and didnt want to jinx the game by trying to be the doctor.
14nd - doublevoter -- didnt want it
15th - roleblocker -- didnt want it

Overall I was going for some of the more fun roles when I first picked it cause everyone had a role and was a good time to just go nuts on some of them. I truely didnt think I would have gotten cop.

For my own two cents in this, I keep trying to get to the point of focusing on the JOAT. By trying to focus on the kills and how it could happen and each time bringing it up just in case it was the JOAT who made the kill and since I had the knowledge I wanted it to get here. I played out my information and knowingly was putting myself here to try to drag out the JOAT once it was determined and as you stated if I could just fly under the radar as before which I wasnt even a target why would I all of sudden drop myself dead into the center of it. I had nothing to gain but heat from my statement on the JOAT and trying to fish them out.

Ill go back and check why I went for Ragian, just off the top of head I remember part of my theory was I was going off the numbers game and there was something that pushed me over the top on him but Ill check back on my home computer as I believe I wrote down notes for each person I was considering.

Ill get that information but dont overlook Alt's claim of protection as well with the current points.

I brought this up for this very point to get this conversation going and get a catch so I will gladly answer whatever you ask.

[pmchugh]

Why raigan?

[nagerous]

I don't like the ragian thing, it seems a little bit of a cop out, as if you are trying to exonerate yourselves from the trackers + watchers if you had actually killed him and not give anything away by announcing someone as innocent. I am not convinced by alt's story either as it seems he would have made a stronger case to protest ghostly's innocence. I know he defended him to a certain extent but we also have posts like this:

I find myself in the same boat as soundman. Lots of reading...highly suspicious of ghostly...but wanting to hear from him or the mod for some kind of clarification.

I think if he had investigated him as the cop he would have not written a post like this. I know alt may claim he didn't want to give anything away but I would argue this is a WIFOM argument.

[Rodion]

Simplified vote count

ghostly447 - everywhere116, edocsil, nagerous (L-4)
alt1978 - drunkmonkey, ???, Djfireside (L-4)
Djfireside - alt1978

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch!

If I missed your vote, please let me know and post it in red for future reference.

[ghostly447]

To be honest, DrunkMonkey is nowhere near cleared yet. There are so many options, that I dont even want to post them, but I will.

1.Drunkmonkey is lying, put doublevoter first to ensure a double vote should they make it to the final round
2.DJ is lying and therefore is the JOAT and Drunkmonkey tried to deflect attention away from DJ towards alt to get a claim and maintain a relatively low profile
3.Nag is lying and has now opened up our entire grouping a little more to the point we could be digging a bit longer
4.Drunk took the fake claim of a scumbuddy who has not yet been called out, and waited to post while his scumbuddy was active enough to change the votes around

And many many more. I think that alt is definitely clear (I do not feel the mafia would go for cop, but who knows, maybe they would to clear, in this case, me and alt completely).

DJ is on the fire IMO and Drunk is not quite cleared of being scum.

I will vote DJ once I am sure I wont push him to being lynched

As I said I would, Vote DjFireside.

[spiesr]

I am not convinced by alt's story either as it seems he would have made a stronger case to protest ghostly's innocence. I know he defended him to a certain extent but we also have posts like this:

I find myself in the same boat as soundman. Lots of reading...highly suspicious of ghostly...but wanting to hear from him or the mod for some kind of clarification.

I think if he had investigated him as the cop he would have not written a post like this. I know alt may claim he didn't want to give anything away but I would argue this is a WIFOM argument.

Yeah, Alt, I am going to need you to rationalize all your actions in regards to ghostly from earlier today...

[edocsil]

Blarg, shit show.

DJ, you realize you are calling the doublevoter a cheater? No one is allowed to talk during the day. So now we have to hang the cop or the joat, all assuming the vig isn't lying. IMO alt is slightly less scummy, as he had to go first and guess right, it would have been easier to do a CC. Small lead in my mind though. Good logic could increase your odds of guessing right, depending on what pick you got vs you list position. Dunno what to think of the cop/ghostly stuff.

Also, ragian is conveniently dead. Convenient that DJ does not confirm a townie.

[soundman]

Why raigan?

I would like an answer to this as well.

I'm more inclined to believe Alt because he claimed first. Last time someone CC a cop they (the CCer) turned out to be mafia. I think DJ knows that his only chance to survive one more day is to CC. With Drunk proving his double voter ability, either Alt or DJ have to be lying. And so DJ knows that the only thing he can do to help his scummates is to try and take down the cop. Vote DJ

[Ragian]

Why raigan?

I'll bust out of my coffin, fly to Scotland, and teach you my name

[Djfireside]

Why raigan?

Heading off to work but figured I would log in so I could at least give my points before work and will continue from there.

My 3 choices for N1 were Ragian,Clever and Soundman.

Ragian -- When the double vote came up and SG played a hint towards ragian and to try to draw attention away making joke votes. I noted this and his interest in pointing him out decided to follow it.

Clever -- Marked by alot of people and I believed appeared to be acting aloof.

Soundman -- Gained my vote for what appeared to be a lynch of anyone and was hungry to get to the night.

I choose ragian based on SG getting lynched and turning mafia so I was following any path from him. It was a toss up between him and Clever at that point and I went with ragian.

I went away from my start at the top and move down approach after the lynch.

I know it looks bad and that was in the back of my head when I saw he got killed N1 and I went to play this strat but it was going to help so I figured it still needed to be played.

Blarg, shit show.

DJ, you realize you are calling the doublevoter a cheater? No one is allowed to talk during the day. So now we have to hang the cop or the joat, all assuming the vig isn't lying. IMO alt is slightly less scummy, as he had to go first and guess right, it would have been easier to do a CC. Small lead in my mind though. Good logic could increase your odds of guessing right, depending on what pick you got vs you list position. Dunno what to think of the cop/ghostly stuff.

Also, ragian is conveniently dead. Convenient that DJ does not confirm a townie.

Im not calling them a cheater. Masons can talk and mafia can talk. So its very plausible that they were able to communicate on it. Maybe I was thinking too much into it but its a possibility. I dropped that line because Alt claimed my role and by that I am pushing that way since I am certain he is mafia and my theory on drunk will have to be put away and they have shown their power.

I guess my only defense is that I turned the case this way and knowingly put the fire on myself (no pun intended) to help the town catch a mafia. There is nothing more that I can say because unfortunately my investigation was on a dead person which looks bad I agree and pained me when he died cause of this very conversation.

Now look at Alt's, all of a sudden he now knows that ghostly is clean but didnt come back before saying anything?

I find myself in the same boat as soundman. Lots of reading...highly suspicious of ghostly...but wanting to hear from him or the mod for some kind of clarification.

So he knew he was safe but continued one rather than staying quiet or trying to turn him back if he was not guilty? If he knew why continue the pressure on him

[edocsil]

DJ, masons and scum can't talk at day 95% of the time. I would bet that the norm applies in this game, the roles are fairly vanilla.

[Djfireside]

I was going by the last game I was mason I could talk the whole time to my counterpart but I do see your point in association with Mafia that they would only be night. As stated though whatever my thoughts on that were I dropped it based on my inital push to get the JOAT and with ALT Claiming my role I believe it is him.

I bow to your knowledge on this and believe I was mistaken in stating that mafia could talk during the day and was never calling anyone a cheater nor trying to imply it.

[alt1978]

To explain the post i made in regards to ghostly earlier...about agreeing with soundman about ghostly seeming suspicious and needing to speak up...

The quote taken out of context looks bad...but consider being the cop in context of ghostly threatening to quit the game. There didn't seem to be any risk of the hammer dropping on ghostly at that time. I felt pretty confident he was going to be replaced...i was planning on coming out and supporting strongly whatever the new case for being town was by the new player...as it had to be better than what ghostly had provided up to that point.

However...ghostly came back with a vengence and put together a really strong case for himself.

I posted my first soft defense of ghostly when speisr started to put some heat on ghostly when ghostly was L2. The conversation actually was successfully sidetracked momentarily.

However...spiesr eventually voted on ghostly (nothing scummy because the case was still pretty good)

by spiesr on Tue Mar 27, 2012 10:53 pm
I think we are more or less ready to be done here. We are now just going around in circles and nobody is happy, let's just bite the bullet already.
Vote Ghostly.

Re: Power Role Draft Mafia (12/15) - Day 2
by pmchugh on Tue Mar 27, 2012 10:54 pm
unvote busy just now but I think he may actually be town.

The interesting thing about this exchange is that PMC had looked at ghostly closer than anyone and had applied more heat than anyone. One minute after ghostly goes L-1...pmc pulls his vote back. If pmc was pulling his vote back...i thought ghostly was safe. A lot of folks seem to follow his lead...so i thought once he pulled back a number of others would.

Something else that I was watching closely before I posted in ghostly's defense was how the clever/ghostly interaction was going to play out. In retrospect...with shield turning up to be scum...I probably should have investigated clever instead but ghostly gave me such a strong scum vibe day one that I went with my gut. I was watching to see if there was something in the way clever defended himself against being linked/tied to ghostly. The pressure on ghostly seemed like it might draw something out of clever. I think it's strange how quiet clever has been during this whole exchange...but that's something I am planning on looking into tonight.

[Djfireside]

I agree you did make a point to protect ghostly. I cant speak against that, I gathered everything you have posted and just threw in a few, there are 21 and Ill post the whole thing if you want.

Ill even post your defense in there.

avoiding a claim,
suggesting to claim from the bottom up rather than top down and avoiding the claim yourself,
claiming not doctor after being chased down by everyone including ghostly for avoiding claims (page 19),
noting that SG7's claim could be legit based on location but waiting list and avoiding voting for him (Page 27),
Coming in to cast doubt that SG7 may be the bomb and to watch out for him and that you would be a non hammer vote for him now that everyone was straight ready to nail him to a wall (Page 29),
The post I made before about ghostly (Page 36),
Defense of Ghostly mainly based on numbers but a defense nevertheless (Page 39)
Making comments on votes in ghostly's favor


You were caught up day 1 for basically just avoiding anything to do with claims and trying to redirect any claim away from yourself. This eventually disappeared and SG7 drew all the attention.
However, Ghostly was part of this and nothing really ever came from it and you were never really cleared of anything but he appeared to think so.

My personal opinion on evaluation.

1. everywhere116 - May be scum. Seems to hop on wagons quickly. Tries to speed up my lynch.
2. ghostly447 - ...
3. Some7hingCLEVER - Town to me. Its not because he sided with me, its just because he doesnt seem scummy. DONT LET PMC LYNCH HIM THINKING THERE IS A CONNECTION. I HAVE NO CONNECTION TO HIM, AND IF IT TAKES MY LYNCH TO PROVE THAT, SO BE IT.
4. pmchugh - Scummy. I have not felt well about him since we started.
5. edocsil - Starting to give me scum vibes. Nothing confirmed. He didnt give any new input when jumping on my wagon.
6. nagerous - Scummy from Post 3 or so onward. Not very active, and when he is active he just restates stuff because he is nearly forced on. I dont like how he over reacted, and was just trying to clear himself in his last post against me by effectively trying to speed up my lynch in saying I am getting tunnel visioned.
7. dazza2008 - Read about Nags over reaction. Same goes for dazza. Scummy to me.
9. Djfireside - I havent felt any scum vibes from dj. I dont think he has been very active from what I remember.
10. spiesr - Im not sure about spiesr. Half of his posts ring scum to me, half dont.
11. MoB Deadly - Read about everywhere.
12. soundman - Not sure.
13. alt1978 - Town to me.

Well, thats a lot of people ringing scummy, but the top 5 for me are pmc, nag, dazza, spiesr, and edoc. not in that particular order. The ones who seem most connected in my opinion are nag and dazza.

Thats about all I can give now. I await my fate, and hope this benefits the town .

fp by pmc and everywhere.

This is what I am talking about with everywhere, he seems to jump in and say completely irrelevant crap to speed up my lynch. It just doesnt seem town to me. Everywhere, it was an add on to serve as an advisory so that when I am lynched, since it will more than likely happen, town realizes that they only have a max of 2 days (inferring I am town again.).

So he goes from being a small part of the bandwagon which he was called out for being waffly on it and not getting anything concrete to all of a sudden thinking you are town? Along with Clever who everyone else has deemed scummy but he doesnt see it. Yes they were both being attacked but how is it that at this point, his list houses all the people with scummy tendancies which im being voted for so Im part of that, on his list as town
Im marked as flying under the radar but I was sick for a bit and missed some but for everything else all I was talking about was how the kills could have happened and eventually bringing us to this point.

And you will investigate clever... yeah...

I brought this on myself and I will die. Either lynch or mafia killed (and if I was lying but survive by the Vig) cause as stated before, if you are going to down why not bring the cop out to go with you. Which I was accused of but put the same on you. Just so happened the one chasing you was the cop and you didnt get an extra out of it. I am town and who I say I am. That will be seen tonight either way.

I knew my fate going into it but one town for one mafia is a good trade in my book and better with a bonus

Noone is protecting me and noone has but you have a few with you with no real concrete good reason which only leads me further to my point. You are lying and others are covering for you so in turn I find them just as papable.

[Rodion]

Simplified vote count

ghostly447 - everywhere116, edocsil, nagerous (L-4)
alt1978 - drunkmonkey, ???, Djfireside (L-4)
Djfireside - alt1978, ghostly447, soundman (L-4)

Not voting: pmchugh, dazza2008, some7hing clever, spiesr

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch!

If I missed your vote, please let me know and post it in red for future reference.

[drunkmonkey]

unvote
I'm still undecided about who's lying.

fastposted by the vote count.

[pmchugh]

Oh I'm enjoying this. Props to whoever is mafia, you guys are good at defending yourself.

Seeing that list of player ghostly posted, I would love if you guys would do the same. Go through everyone and state an opinion. This is useful in two ways, one of you has to blatantly lie and when the townie dies you can see who they thought was mafia. I'm especially interested to hear whether dj suspects that ghostly is mafia or town.

[Djfireside]

Ill take first. Then I have to get back to work cause Ive been on this too much today.

(3) everywhere116 -- Based on their action in the lynch of D1 and what I gathered from their softclaims I think they are clean.

(9) ghostly447 -- They jumped quickly through the ranks within the last few posts. I thought they did well keeping the heat off of them to a point based on my research into ALT, I kept finding links back to ghostly. It grew worse once he said that he investigated him. I am seriously torn with ghostly now. I know that ALT is lying which makes my view right now unique because I have to view everything he says as a lie. Initally when ghostly came out with his list I didnt think anything of it but now pairing it with what I know now seems a bit strange and watching ALT try to protect him in subtle ways throughout day 2, though sparse, and the kicker was the list. Alt and clever were cleared by him and clever I can understand cause they were paired and both being hit so I can take the commrade approach but ALT was nowhere near that and was suspected by ghostly but then cleared. The kicker of it all is if I was going to fake claim, I would not choose someone who was mafia with me for that because it will come back to bite you in the butt later and lose the game. So did ALT mess up there and out his collegue thinking his claim would hold and the cop would stay quiet and try to save him? If I had to make a choice I would say Scum. Didnt vote day 1 and was "shocked" that he came up mafia.

(8) Some7hingCLEVER -- seems to have disappeared into the void. Came off a bit scummy and led part of my list for checking into. Based on limited activity I tend to still think they are worth watching and wouldnt be surprised if they popped mafia. Nothing concrete of late. Didnt vote day 1

(3) pmchugh -- Helped lead the hunt for Vig and I guess in turn JOAT. Caught a bit of a scum on him when he dropped off of ghostly but based on the fact that he went for the vig was redeeming. Appeared to have town as best interest and definately was working towards my direction so I wrote them off as okay.

(5) edocsil -- Played more pushy to get people pinned up and pushed the issues dont remember any scum tells but alot of random remarks but nothing struck me off.

(5) nagerous -- Caught a bit of scummy from day 1 but nothing too harsh and day 2 I dont really remember much of them other than a few quips. Not really up on them so could be either or but doesnt strike me badly at least

(3) dazza2008 -- More over helping in the scum hunt and while was accused of a few scum tells, I never really caught anything from them and in reading back over appears to be clean in my book as my logic fits theirs and cant really find anything on them.

(0) Djfireside -- I'm me. The Fuzz of the town. Unfortunately youll see it soon enough.

(3) spiesr -- Overall playing the helpful role and stirring the pot occassionaly but moreover staying pretty much neutral but I have nothing against them and dont really see them scummy now. Was one of the early ones on SG7.

(5) drunkmonkey -- Proved their point showing they could change the vote. Based on corrective points given I will take they are who they say they are. Why town would choose that as a principle role I dunno but thats not my choice or theirs. Gave me a
few questionable points but im okay with them.

(4) soundman -- claimed vig, which has not been debunked and based on what would have occured tonight would have given me better feeling on them but I will go with they are watched because they have to answer for their actions

(10) alt1978 -- had nothing on them until they claimed my role as I was pushing towards drunk and thought they were just inactive floating and giving them benefit of the doubt on claiming cause they were the top. However once my role popped up, everything changed and somehow it all fell into place. You know my thoughts on this one if not... well stop skimming?!? Didnt vote day 1


The more I pull it together the more they all look the part.

People who didnt vote day 1,

ghostly447, Some7hingCLEVER, Ragian, alt1978.

All 3 of my top thoughts together in a list and my target for investigation.

From my list it has to go

ALt -- cause he is not the cop and based on logic scum.

ghostly -- too many ties to Alt so takes my second rung. Despite my thought that someone wouldnt out their teammate I cant help but tie all the pieces together and think that ALT thought he would get away with the cop claim and clear ghostly enough that people would have forgot it was him who said it.

clever -- the link from the first day is the reason he stays and he has hit the showers for whatever reason but remains a distant third as no new news means you are still paying for your old deeds and since noone else has given me much and I was so focused on the joat/vig hunt, you stick.

[everywhere116]

Unvote vote DJ

I'm siding with alt as for now, but I certainly am not dead set on this decision. There is uncertainty on both sides.

[spiesr]

IMO alt is slightly less scummy, as he had to go first and guess right, it would have been easier to do a CC. Small lead in my mind though. Good logic could increase your odds of guessing right, depending on what pick you got vs you list position. Dunno what to think of the cop/ghostly stuff.

Depending on where his hypothetical scum mates fell in the draft and what their lists were, the scum may have had a good idea what role Djfireside would have had. Of course such a scenario raises the question of if the mafia had a good idea that Djfireside was the cop, then why would they not have killed him? Following on the the answer to that question probably falls on the lines of worrying about his position on the list making for increased chances of the doctor, watcher, or whatever targeting him. Also through in some WIFOM probably...

[alt1978]

There is a lot to respond to here...pmc...i have heard your request for a top to bottom list on folks...i think it's a good idea and will get to it asap. From my perspecive though...dealing with DJ's accusations against me seems like my top priority.

FIrst and foremost...I am really sorry to hear that you were sick DJ. No sarcasm there...I hope you are feeling better.

To address the accusations against me:
A) avoiding a claim,

The converse of this is that you believe day one I should have come out and claimed being the town cop. Pushing for the first pick to claim is a pretty scummy move in my part. We likely would have ended up with a dead doctor and a dead cop day one. I don't think you can fault me for not wanting to announce to everyone my role. I was ironically trying to protect MOB and you so that the top five didn't get outed right off the bath resulting in all of the town's power being outed. To suggest we should have done otherwise doesn't sit right with me.

B) suggesting to claim from the bottom up rather than top down and avoiding the claim yourself,

Simply not what I suggested. I suggested claiming in alphabetical order (a poor and unsuccessful attempt at humor) because ironically i would have been first to have to claim if we were to go in alphabetical order instead of draft rank. The meat and potatoes of what I was saying was that we shouldn't be claiming at all off the rip...and that elminating potential fake claims would be a good way to go about business. My suggestion was NOT to start CLAIMING from bottom to top...but to share the bottom of each person's list of role choices...so that it would be harder for mafia to fake claim. It was a stupid idea looking at how useless shield's list was...but a stupid idea is less scummy in my book than skimming an idea and twisting it around to look like it was something that it was not.

C) claiming not doctor after being chased down by everyone including ghostly for avoiding claims (page 19),

This claim was clearly proven to be true since ragian turned out to be the doctor. If putting out true statements about what you are or are not is scummy...then I guess this is evidence but I'm not sure how.

D)noting that SG7's claim could be legit based on location but waiting list and avoiding voting for him (Page 27),

This is actually a piece of evidence that sticks. I deserve some scum points for this one. All I can say is that I coulnd't believe SG7's lack of interest in defending himself. His non-chalance made no sense to me...why continue to post so much and say so little to help yourself. I read too much into it...over-analyzed it...and was wrong. Sometimes people may just really not care. My bad...and good catch.

E) Coming in to cast doubt that SG7 may be the bomb and to watch out for him and that you would be a non hammer vote for him now that everyone was straight ready to nail him to a wall (Page 29),

I can understand why maybe this looks scummy...but I will let you know what I was thinking and address the issue. I think anyone suggesting that the town cop get blown up hanging scum on day one is a good idea is suspect...but let me share what I was thinking. I was still working off of the eliminating possible outs idea to figure out what roles were in the game. I ranked bomb high on my list...I thought it would be cool and kind of fun...but I'm also kind of a mafia noob. I didn't know if anyone else thought much of the role or not. By putting that suggestion out there...i did three things. One is that i saved my own skin if sg7 was the bomb...something i was a little worried about. 2. I was letting town folks know that I felt strongly that I had an important town role that was worth protecting. 3. I learned from folks going along with the ole "switcher-ooskie" for the hammer...that a lot of other folks thought it was at least likely the bomb was in the game and real. Number three may have been common knowledge for a lot of folks...but it was news to me and helped me mark off another potential role not in the game for a fake claim.

F) The post I made before about ghostly (Page 36),
I addressed this at length earlier...in short...I thought he was going to be replaced and he really did need to start speaking up. I certainly did want to hear more from him. It's hard to stick your neck out for someone who isn't willing to do it themselves. However, when ghostly turned it around and started firing back...yes...i did try and come to his defense.

G) Defense of Ghostly mainly based on numbers but a defense nevertheless (Page 39)
Yes...I defended ghostly. I investigated him night one and he was innocent.

H) Making comments on votes in ghostly's favor
I don't know what this means. I know that ghostly is innocent. I know that I am the town cop and have acted like it to the best of my ability from the start. I know that you come in and force the number 1 and number 2 draft picks to claim...giving great information to the mafia. I know that you claim cop after I have already done so (incredibly convenient). I know that your "investiagation" was of someone who is already dead. I think it was a bit unlucky that MOB picked double voter so high...the list play would have been really valueable to the mafia if it could have outed two power roles (and thus be well worth the risk).

I also don't agree with your math. One for one is not a good deal for the town when the one is the town the cop from the way I figure it...although maybe it's just that I don't want this game to end for me. As I said before...i think it was a great timely play to get the top draft picks exposed. I'm pretty sure if I had claimed bullet-proof or star-crossed lover or anything off of Rodion's list...DJ was going to counter claim whatever I claimed to try and hang me without using a night action kill against me.

My point being...DJ may or may not be the JOAT...he could be covering for a mafia friend. Either way...he is scum.
I do agree with one thing though...either way we will shortly know the truth.

Last point before i get off...a no lynch is bad news. I'm not trying to pressure here...but a no lynch means we have the same discussion again tommorow...probably with one fewer town in our presence. Even if you decide I'm scum...it's better to get a lynch and know for sure where to go tomorrow than to let this thing end in a hung jury.

[pmchugh]

Dj nice list although your scum picks seem rather too easy to me.

The more I pull it together the more they all look the part.

People who didnt vote day 1,

ghostly447, Some7hingCLEVER, Ragian, alt1978.

All 3 of my top thoughts together in a list and my target for investigation.

This is misleading, for a start the VC was wrong both clever and ghostly were voting for nag. Also you ignore those who had votes on people other than shield, including yourself. In fact you went very quiet around the time he got lynched.

Also on ghostly, you must recognize that alt is dead today or tomorrow if he is in fact mafia, why would he inno his partner? That seems risky.

[ghostly447]

I will have to go back and read all of that again because there were many many points made that I could get something against, but I do not want to quote it all. a couple things I do remember:

By the logic that my list can be used to decide my scum buddies (in this example of sorts), I will also use yours:
I have now narrowed it to this. Should you be telling the truth, and alt is lying, it almost certainly connects me to him no matter what I say, without a doubt. I do not know who the other would be out of the 3 remaining mafia.
Or if you are lying, then it there could be a number of possibilities, just off the top of my head, nag, edoc, daz, and a few others that you cleared.

I will go back, read through, and post when I get time. I may be a few hours, and sorry if that is the case. Since alt has now stated that he investigated me, it somewhat pits me on his side no matter how you look at it, but I will continue to go with an unbiased approach throughout.

[spiesr]

Since alt has now stated that he investigated me, it somewhat pits me on his side no matter how you look at it, but I will continue to go with an unbiased approach throughout.

Not really, like pmc said:

Also on ghostly, you must recognize that alt is dead today or tomorrow if he is in fact mafia, why would he inno his partner? That seems risky.

We can't really make any solid determinations on whether or not Alt would list on innocent as his investigation in his fake claim. It is hard to say if we would do so, but certainly doing so does not seem any more likely than the reverse. Err, I seem to have wandered there, but my point is: If you (ghostly) end up coming down on Alt's side in this decision today, it had better well be based on who you really think is scum out of the two, and not based on Alt have claimed an investigation on you and what that would mean for your future survivability.