ELECTION "08- Who u takin

[Nephilim]

The Republican party has been notorious for the suppport of Big Business. let me ask you, whats your opinions on tax cuts which favor the rich (certainly Jesus wouldn't be for that)?

The top 5% of wage earners pay 53.25% of the taxes collected.
The top 10% of wage earners pay 64.89% of the taxes collected.
The top 50% of wage earners pay 96.03% of the taxes collected.

So let me finish the math for you. The bottom 50% pay 3.97% of taxes collected.

The top 50% also earns 86.19% of income generated in the U.S.
The bottom 50% is paying a tiny bit of the taxes, so you can't give them much of a tax cut by definition.

not inclined to believe anything you say, esp with bogus numbers like that

[jay_a2j]

let me ask you, whats your opinions on tax cuts which favor the rich (certainly Jesus wouldn't be for that)? welfare? socail security money to help the elderly? universal healthcare (for the people who are too poor to afford it)? the mass deportation of jobs, and just unions for that matter? These are the issues that affect the average american.

First of all there is no evidence that homosexuality is "genetic" and I don't believe that it is.


Your questions:

Tax cuts that "favor the rich": This is basic economics. When was the last time you got offered a job from a poor person? What you fail to realize is that "the rich" create jobs. Taxing the rich to death makes them unable to expand business (creating jobs) and sometime causes businesses to close completely. (losing jobs) In essence the rich provide jobs for the middle class like myself.... so I am against over-taxation of the rich. Jesus was not against taxes..."Give to Cesar (government) what is Cesar's but give to God what is Gods."


Welfare: Welfare was good when it was used for what it was intended for. To help widows of those lost in war. It has become a "free ride" for the extremely lazy. It makes me sick that I go out and work 40 hours a week while someone just as able to work sits on his butt and watches Jerry Springer re-runs all day! And MY tax dollars pay him to do it! Call me crazy but I believe able bodied people should work for what they get in life and not rely on others to hand it to them.


Social Security: I'm in favor of it.... but I'll be honest. I'm going to be a little bit more than peeved when I turn 62 and there is no social security money for me when I have worked all my life for it only to get nothing.


Universal Health Care: Absolutely apposed! Waiting 8 months for a heart transplant because I'm "on a list" does NOT sound appealing to me. Medical care would decline...there would be no incentive to be "the best" in any field of medicine. Government run health care is a bad idea.


Deportation of Jobs/Unions: Companies deport jobs because they can "do it cheaper" elsewhere. Here is a taxation issue. Taxing business too much sometime forces companies to go to where they can "do it cheaper". Now don't tell me if someone was mowing your lawn for $25 a week and someone else came along and offered to do it for $10 you wouldn't switch mowers. If you want to keep jobs here in the US make it business friendly so that they stay! Unions I just hate. They are completely self-serving and useless.

[jay_a2j]

The Republican party has been notorious for the suppport of Big Business. let me ask you, whats your opinions on tax cuts which favor the rich (certainly Jesus wouldn't be for that)?

The top 5% of wage earners pay 53.25% of the taxes collected.
The top 10% of wage earners pay 64.89% of the taxes collected.
The top 50% of wage earners pay 96.03% of the taxes collected.

So let me finish the math for you. The bottom 50% pay 3.97% of taxes collected.

The top 50% also earns 86.19% of income generated in the U.S.
The bottom 50% is paying a tiny bit of the taxes, so you can't give them much of a tax cut by definition.

not inclined to believe anything you say, esp with bogus numbers like that

I don't know if the numbers are 100% accurate or not but I know its close. Open a tax book.... look at the percentage compared to income.


Bill makes 50,000

Matt makes 500,000

Bill pays 10% of his income to taxes (or $5,000)

Matt pays 5% of his income to taxes (or $25,000)

* note: this is an example not actual numbers in relation to income.


Matt pays half the percentage Bill does , however he pays $20,000 more in taxes. This is what the "tax in favor of the rich" just don't get.

[spurgistan]

The Republican party has been notorious for the suppport of Big Business. let me ask you, whats your opinions on tax cuts which favor the rich (certainly Jesus wouldn't be for that)?

The top 5% of wage earners pay 53.25% of the taxes collected.
The top 10% of wage earners pay 64.89% of the taxes collected.
The top 50% of wage earners pay 96.03% of the taxes collected.

So let me finish the math for you. The bottom 50% pay 3.97% of taxes collected.

The top 50% also earns 86.19% of income generated in the U.S.
The bottom 50% is paying a tiny bit of the taxes, so you can't give them much of a tax cut by definition.

not inclined to believe anything you say, esp with bogus numbers like that

I don't know if the numbers are 100% accurate or not but I know its close. Open a tax book.... look at the percentage compared to income.


Bill makes 50,000

Matt makes 500,000

Bill pays 10% of his income to taxes (or $5,000)

Matt pays 5% of his income to taxes (or $25,000)



Matt pays half the percentage Bill does , however he pays $20,000 more in taxes. This is what the "tax in favor of the rich" just don't get.

This is going to be an underwhelming response, could make it better, but it's late, and I'm pissed off at that last one (good job!)

OK, using base American tax brackets (too tired to mess with the standard deduction, I'm not a cpa dammit...
Bill earns 50,000, pays 5,000 tax, now he has 45,000 to cover life's
necessities (probably not enough) and whatever's left goes to fund whatever social life can be scraped by on.
Matt earns 500,000, payz 175,000 tax, now he has 325,000 to cover life's expenses, and fund a rousing and fulfilling life.

Now... who would you rather be? Matt or Bill? Could you stomach paying 25% higher rate in exchange for 280,000 dollars? Or would your gut reflex against progressive taxation force you to be Bill?

[jay_a2j]

The Republican party has been notorious for the suppport of Big Business. let me ask you, whats your opinions on tax cuts which favor the rich (certainly Jesus wouldn't be for that)?

The top 5% of wage earners pay 53.25% of the taxes collected.
The top 10% of wage earners pay 64.89% of the taxes collected.
The top 50% of wage earners pay 96.03% of the taxes collected.

So let me finish the math for you. The bottom 50% pay 3.97% of taxes collected.

The top 50% also earns 86.19% of income generated in the U.S.
The bottom 50% is paying a tiny bit of the taxes, so you can't give them much of a tax cut by definition.

not inclined to believe anything you say, esp with bogus numbers like that

I don't know if the numbers are 100% accurate or not but I know its close. Open a tax book.... look at the percentage compared to income.


Bill makes 50,000

Matt makes 500,000

Bill pays 10% of his income to taxes (or $5,000)

Matt pays 5% of his income to taxes (or $25,000)



Matt pays half the percentage Bill does , however he pays $20,000 more in taxes. This is what the "tax in favor of the rich" just don't get.

This is going to be an underwhelming response, could make it better, but it's late, and I'm pissed off at that last one (good job!)

OK, using base American tax brackets (too tired to mess with the standard deduction, I'm not a cpa dammit...
Bill earns 50,000, pays 5,000 tax, now he has 45,000 to cover life's
necessities (probably not enough) and whatever's left goes to fund whatever social life can be scraped by on.
Matt earns 500,000, payz 175,000 tax, now he has 325,000 to cover life's expenses, and fund a rousing and fulfilling life.

Now... who would you rather be? Matt or Bill? Could you stomach paying 25% higher rate in exchange for 280,000 dollars? Or would your gut reflex against progressive taxation force you to be Bill?

So what you are saying is that both Bill and Matt should be left with equal income in order to be "fair". Perhaps both Bill and Matt should be left with $45,000 and all is fair? NO, ever think that Matt has a better paying job and has worked his ass off for it? And maybe, just maybe he should be able to live a little more comfortably than Bill?

[spurgistan]

Well, first things first, I was talking about progressive income taxes, which are relevant to American presidential elections, not communism, let's keep our threads together, eh? Therefore, I was simply saying that I know I would much rather be Matt, even with the 25% more tax, which is utterly meaningless, as he has 280,000 more dollars AFTER TAX anyways.
Speaking of elections, are you insinuating that America's working poor don't work hard? not sure you'll ever see an official elected after spouting that one And what makes you think Matt had to work so much harder than Bill to get where he is? Life of hardship factor into this at all?

[jay_a2j]

Well, first things first, I was talking about progressive income taxes, which are relevant to American presidential elections, not communism, let's keep our threads together, eh? Therefore, I was simply saying that I know I would much rather be Matt, even with the 25% more tax, which is utterly meaningless, as he has 280,000 more dollars AFTER TAX anyways.
Speaking of elections, are you insinuating that America's working poor don't work hard? not sure you'll ever see an official elected after spouting that one And what makes you think Matt had to work so much harder than Bill to get where he is? Life of hardship factor into this at all?

I'd much rather be Matt too. But if I was Bill I wouldn't complain that Matt is bringing home more than me. Thats life..... deal with it. Matt does not deserve to be taxed to death in order to make Bill feel that it's "fair".

[ritz627]

let me ask you, whats your opinions on tax cuts which favor the rich (certainly Jesus wouldn't be for that)? welfare? socail security money to help the elderly? universal healthcare (for the people who are too poor to afford it)? the mass deportation of jobs, and just unions for that matter? These are the issues that affect the average american.

First of all there is no evidence that homosexuality is "genetic" and I don't believe that it is.


Your questions:

Tax cuts that "favor the rich": This is basic economics. When was the last time you got offered a job from a poor person? What you fail to realize is that "the rich" create jobs. Taxing the rich to death makes them unable to expand business (creating jobs) and sometime causes businesses to close completely. (losing jobs) In essence the rich provide jobs for the middle class like myself.... so I am against over-taxation of the rich. Jesus was not against taxes..."Give to Cesar (government) what is Cesar's but give to God what is Gods."


Welfare: Welfare was good when it was used for what it was intended for. To help widows of those lost in war. It has become a "free ride" for the extremely lazy. It makes me sick that I go out and work 40 hours a week while someone just as able to work sits on his butt and watches Jerry Springer re-runs all day! And MY tax dollars pay him to do it! Call me crazy but I believe able bodied people should work for what they get in life and not rely on others to hand it to them.


Social Security: I'm in favor of it.... but I'll be honest. I'm going to be a little bit more than peeved when I turn 62 and there is no social security money for me when I have worked all my life for it only to get nothing.


Universal Health Care: Absolutely apposed! Waiting 8 months for a heart transplant because I'm "on a list" does NOT sound appealing to me. Medical care would decline...there would be no incentive to be "the best" in any field of medicine. Government run health care is a bad idea.


Deportation of Jobs/Unions: Companies deport jobs because they can "do it cheaper" elsewhere. Here is a taxation issue. Taxing business too much sometime forces companies to go to where they can "do it cheaper". Now don't tell me if someone was mowing your lawn for $25 a week and someone else came along and offered to do it for $10 you wouldn't switch mowers. If you want to keep jobs here in the US make it business friendly so that they stay! Unions I just hate. They are completely self-serving and useless.

Come on, I'm only asking you, what would Jesus support? Certainly not the republicans in any of these cases.

Unions are created to protect the job of the average person, and provide basic support for these people such as healthcare. Whats the matter, you can't stand strikes? You think unions are useless? Go work for Walmart, see what you say then.

Universal healthcare would not only help the poor and average people, it would put more money back into the pocket of the average American. You act like people don't wait 8 months for a heart transplant as it is. And if thats not the case, what you're pretty much saying is that you would rather have people die because they can't afford something like a heart transplant. You would rather have them die so you can save yourself. How very christian of you.

The deportation of jobs is causing many American's to well, quite frankly, go jobless. It is without a doubt hurting America (it's basic economics). I can see where big business is coming from, but I can't see how if you weren't at all connected to the higher ups in big business, you would be for it.

As for tax cuts which favor the rich, I realize that many jobs are created by the rich, but they are becoming billionares. Are you honestly trying to tell me that they can't function with a little less money in thier pocket to help out thier average employee? I am not calling for over-taxation of the rich, your very much exagerating. And your right, Jesus wasn't against taxation, and niether are democrats. In fact, they are more for taxation than the republicans. And as for what you're saying Fo Sho, thats graduated income tax, created by democrats, most republicans are against it dumbass.

[DirtyDishSoap]

Hillary Clinton For President?!

thats HILLarious!

sorry for the bad joke

[DirtyDishSoap]

I Nominate Myself For President

feel free to ask me questions of how i can make this a better America

[Nephilim]

I Nominate Myself For President

feel free to ask me questions of how i can make this a better America

feel free to lose your self-obsession. nobody besides you enjoys reading what you type

[DirtyDishSoap]

if you want to flame me
go to flame wars
they made it for a reason
fuckwit

[Iz Man]

Unions are created to protect the job of the average person, and provide basic support for these people such as healthcare. Whats the matter, you can't stand strikes? You think unions are useless? Go work for Walmart, see what you say then.

Unions were necessary at one time, but now have grown out of hand. Strongarming non-union workers. Taking union dues and giving that money to politicians without any regard to their members' feelings as to whether it should go to that candidate or not. I don't believe they should be eliminated all together, but they need to be brought down a notch. How? Who knows, another thread.

Universal healthcare would not only help the poor and average people, it would put more money back into the pocket of the average American.

Where do you think all that money would come from? You & me with higher taxes.

The deportation of jobs is causing many American's to well, quite frankly, go jobless. It is without a doubt hurting America (it's basic economics).

I agree with you that something needs to be done about jobs moving overseas, however, the current unemployment rate in the U.S. is 4.4%. Virtually 100% employed. The job market, even given some jobs that have left the country, is quite strong.

As for tax cuts which favor the rich, I realize that many jobs are created by the rich, but they are becoming billionares. Are you honestly trying to tell me that they can't function with a little less money in thier pocket to help out thier average employee? I am not calling for over-taxation of the rich, your very much exagerating. And your right, Jesus wasn't against taxation, and niether are democrats. In fact, they are more for taxation than the republicans. And as for what you're saying Fo Sho, thats graduated income tax, created by democrats, most republicans are against it dumbass.

Actually, there aren't THAT many "billionaires". To expand on what I said earlier, the top 1% wage earners contribute more tax revenue than the entire bottom 50%.
So how much $$ is too much? Are you the one who decides once someone passes a certain income level they must give it up to........ who? Maybe you can be the one who decides how much and to whom all this unneeded" money goes to. Or maybe I can be the big decision maker.
I made $85k last year, is that too much? Or not enough?

What do people do when they have money? THEY SPEND IT .
They spend it on their businesses, in their communities, on the stock market, on themselves. The point is it goes into the market which is good for the economy. Even if they "horded it in a bank, that would allow the bank to offer more loans to people in the community.

You can't punish people for having money.

[Nephilim]

if you want to flame me
go to flame wars
they made it for a reason
fuckwit

someone made this thread for a reason: to discuss presidential candidates and their policies. not for childish jokes. "i nominate myself for president," that would be hilarious if CC was only populated by 8 year olds.

[spurgistan]

One thing I'm not getting from the flat-tax crowd is how taking some money from somebody who has more than enough is punishment. Punishment for being rich would seem to entail taking all your money, not simply more than you would take from a poor person; that just entails our duty as the wealthy of the world. Anyways, Jesus thought so. (21 Luke, anybody?) So there.

[spurgistan]

Does anybody even know what the candidate's positions on taxation is, beyond the "libruls'll raise ur taxes, condervatives won't argument? And why no Edwards?

[jay_a2j]

Unions are created to protect the job of the average person, and provide basic support for these people such as healthcare. Whats the matter, you can't stand strikes? You think unions are useless? Go work for Walmart, see what you say then.

Unions were necessary at one time, but now have grown out of hand. Strongarming non-union workers. Taking union dues and giving that money to politicians without any regard to their members' feelings as to whether it should go to that candidate or not. I don't believe they should be eliminated all together, but they need to be brought down a notch. How? Who knows, another thread.

Universal healthcare would not only help the poor and average people, it would put more money back into the pocket of the average American.

Where do you think all that money would come from? You & me with higher taxes.

The deportation of jobs is causing many American's to well, quite frankly, go jobless. It is without a doubt hurting America (it's basic economics).

I agree with you that something needs to be done about jobs moving overseas, however, the current unemployment rate in the U.S. is 4.4%. Virtually 100% employed. The job market, even given some jobs that have left the country, is quite strong.

As for tax cuts which favor the rich, I realize that many jobs are created by the rich, but they are becoming billionares. Are you honestly trying to tell me that they can't function with a little less money in thier pocket to help out thier average employee? I am not calling for over-taxation of the rich, your very much exagerating. And your right, Jesus wasn't against taxation, and niether are democrats. In fact, they are more for taxation than the republicans. And as for what you're saying Fo Sho, thats graduated income tax, created by democrats, most republicans are against it dumbass.

Actually, there aren't THAT many "billionaires". To expand on what I said earlier, the top 1% wage earners contribute more tax revenue than the entire bottom 50%.
So how much $$ is too much? Are you the one who decides once someone passes a certain income level they must give it up to........ who? Maybe you can be the one who decides how much and to whom all this unneeded" money goes to. Or maybe I can be the big decision maker.
I made $85k last year, is that too much? Or not enough?

What do people do when they have money? THEY SPEND IT .
They spend it on their businesses, in their communities, on the stock market, on themselves. The point is it goes into the market which is good for the economy. Even if they "horded it in a bank, that would allow the bank to offer more loans to people in the community.

You can't punish people for having money.

Well said, I think it is futile however, to try to talk sense to this guy.

[Iz Man]

One thing I'm not getting from the flat-tax crowd is how taking some money from somebody who has more than enough is punishment. Punishment for being rich would seem to entail taking all your money, not simply more than you would take from a poor person; that just entails our duty as the wealthy of the world.

First, Edwards wants the IRS to complete EVERYONE's taxes.
Plus, he's a nutbag who spends his campaign contributions on $400 haircuts.
But I digress.

You say "more than enough". Are you now the one who will decide when someone has enough money?
Perhaps it can be me?

A flat tax does take more money from the wealthy.

Actually, I believe there should be no income tax at all. The founders were against it. We got along fine without it until the early 20th century. What there should be (IMO) in lieu of an income tax, a tax on goods & services.
It would get rid of loopholes. It would also make sure everyone living "under the table" is paying taxes too. Drug dealers couldn't hide from paying taxes anymore. Most of all, the IRS could be eliminated.

[Anarchist]

I feel anyone that supports a select few making billions of dollars per year while the majority of people have to work two jobs just to make ends meet or risk loosing their homes, is either wealthy or not thinking for themselves.

I think if we all look at how everything is dedicated to the upper class we will see what the world is going to. In capitalism one can make more money if we lower the supply,and increase the demand/dependancy. That seems like a critical flaw in logic.

Anyone who votes against something that will increase the quality of life is an idiot. Anyone who votes against something that doesnt effect them for moral reasons is an asshole. What gives you the right to tell people how they should live their lives?

I think america needs to be split into two seperate countries, one liberal and one conservative. The logic from the conservatives completely evades me.

Conservatives "God bless america"
Liberals "this is so fucked up!"

[unriggable]

One thing I'm not getting from the flat-tax crowd is how taking some money from somebody who has more than enough is punishment. Punishment for being rich would seem to entail taking all your money, not simply more than you would take from a poor person; that just entails our duty as the wealthy of the world.

First, Edwards wants the IRS to complete EVERYONE's taxes.
Plus, he's a nutbag who spends his campaign contributions on $400 haircuts.
But I digress.

You say "more than enough". Are you now the one who will decide when someone has enough money?
Perhaps it can be me?

A flat tax does take more money from the wealthy.

Actually, I believe there should be no income tax at all. The founders were against it. We got along fine without it until the early 20th century. What there should be (IMO) in lieu of an income tax, a tax on goods & services.
It would get rid of loopholes. It would also make sure everyone living "under the table" is paying taxes too. Drug dealers couldn't hide from paying taxes anymore. Most of all, the IRS could be eliminated.

*thump*

Flat tax: We all pay the same amount. I'll let you figure out the rest.

[dwightschrute]

Does anybody even know what the candidate's positions on taxation is, beyond the "libruls'll raise ur taxes, condervatives won't argument? And why no Edwards?

as for y no edwards- i forgot him

[ritz627]

Unions are created to protect the job of the average person, and provide basic support for these people such as healthcare. Whats the matter, you can't stand strikes? You think unions are useless? Go work for Walmart, see what you say then.

Unions were necessary at one time, but now have grown out of hand. Strongarming non-union workers. Taking union dues and giving that money to politicians without any regard to their members' feelings as to whether it should go to that candidate or not. I don't believe they should be eliminated all together, but they need to be brought down a notch. How? Who knows, another thread.

Universal healthcare would not only help the poor and average people, it would put more money back into the pocket of the average American.

Where do you think all that money would come from? You & me with higher taxes.

The deportation of jobs is causing many American's to well, quite frankly, go jobless. It is without a doubt hurting America (it's basic economics).

I agree with you that something needs to be done about jobs moving overseas, however, the current unemployment rate in the U.S. is 4.4%. Virtually 100% employed. The job market, even given some jobs that have left the country, is quite strong.

As for tax cuts which favor the rich, I realize that many jobs are created by the rich, but they are becoming billionares. Are you honestly trying to tell me that they can't function with a little less money in thier pocket to help out thier average employee? I am not calling for over-taxation of the rich, your very much exagerating. And your right, Jesus wasn't against taxation, and niether are democrats. In fact, they are more for taxation than the republicans. And as for what you're saying Fo Sho, thats graduated income tax, created by democrats, most republicans are against it dumbass.

Actually, there aren't THAT many "billionaires". To expand on what I said earlier, the top 1% wage earners contribute more tax revenue than the entire bottom 50%.
So how much $$ is too much? Are you the one who decides once someone passes a certain income level they must give it up to........ who? Maybe you can be the one who decides how much and to whom all this unneeded" money goes to. Or maybe I can be the big decision maker.
I made $85k last year, is that too much? Or not enough?

What do people do when they have money? THEY SPEND IT .
They spend it on their businesses, in their communities, on the stock market, on themselves. The point is it goes into the market which is good for the economy. Even if they "horded it in a bank, that would allow the bank to offer more loans to people in the community.

You can't punish people for having money.

Well said, I think it is futile however, to try to talk sense to this guy.

HAHA, the pot calling the kettle black I see. What you call sense, I call lack of it, and I'm sure plently of people on this site would side with me on that one, you brainwashed christian conservative. What I have been trying to get through to you is that there is no party of chirst, neither one. The christian church, once again, would side with democrats on all those issues that actually effect the average american. However there is a split in some of the ethical issues. You said before that you could not even fathom how a christian could vote democrat, you act as if it is treason, and personally, I not only find it to be increadibly obnoxious, but also increadibly naive. I'm simply trying to explain to you where those "traitors" are coming from.

[DirtyDishSoap]

if you want to flame me
go to flame wars
they made it for a reason
fuckwit

someone made this thread for a reason: to discuss presidential candidates and their policies. not for childish jokes. "i nominate myself for president," that would be hilarious if CC was only populated by 8 year olds.

Ya i sure do see a lot of presidential threads going on...moron

[Iz Man]

*thump*
Flat tax: We all pay the same amount. I'll let you figure out the rest.

No.
A flat tax system is where everyone is taxed at the same RATE.
i.e. 10%

Bob makes $1,000 , pays $100 in taxes.
Bill makes $100 , pays $10 in taxes.

*thump*

[Iz Man]

HAHA, the pot calling the kettle black I see. What you call sense, I call lack of it, and I'm sure plently of people on this site would side with me on that one, you brainwashed christian conservative.
What I have been trying to get through to you is that there is no party of chirst, neither one. The christian church, once again, would side with democrats on all those issues that actually effect the average american. However there is a split in some of the ethical issues. You said before that you could not even fathom how a christian could vote democrat, you act as if it is treason, and personally, I not only find it to be increadibly obnoxious, but also increadibly naive. I'm simply trying to explain to you where those "traitors" are coming from.

I'm assuming your Christian remarks are directed towards jay as I don't believe I've made any religious references.
I am curious as to what you're calling a lack of common sense? You have not responded to any of my logical points on taxation. You've only spouted anti-Christian rhetoric for some reason.