conquer crater (ARTIST NEEDED)

by **wcaclimbing** on Sun Aug 16, 2009 11:26 pm

This map is starting to come along very nicely.

by **sinctheassasin** on Sun Aug 16, 2009 11:28 pm

wcaclimbing wrote:This map is starting to come along very nicely.

thank you

im glad you like it!

also, thanks for tha texture you did so long ago, i have absolutly no clue whatsoever on that stuff :lol:

by **wcaclimbing** on Sun Aug 16, 2009 11:32 pm

I see you used my texture in the crater on the newest version. thats cool.

by **the.killing.44** on Mon Aug 17, 2009 10:14 pm

Look, I'm sorry if this is so blunt, but the idea just isn't going to cut it. The actual graphics are pretty nice (or at least the ones within the crater), and I like the realistic style to the map, but having a conquest-style map about a crater? The truth is that it's more like St. Patty's than Oasis.

With some work on the border & legend style, the nice look of the tanks and middle zone, coupled with the texture of the crater (if not the actual depth itself) would make a pretty nice military map or the like. I just hate to see you work on a map that doesn't have the potential, firstly, to make it through.

=\ .44

by **sinctheassasin** on Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:47 am

the.killing.44 wrote:Look, I'm sorry if this is so blunt, but the idea just isn't going to cut it. The actual graphics are pretty nice (or at least the ones within the crater), and I like the realistic style to the map, but having a conquest-style map about a crater? The truth is that it's more like St. Patty's than Oasis.

With some work on the border & legend style, the nice look of the tanks and middle zone, coupled with the texture of the crater (if not the actual depth itself) would make a pretty nice military map or the like. I just hate to see you work on a map that doesn't have the potential, firstly, to make it through.

=\ .44

hmm, well let's see if we can't change some things, there is always room for improvement.

First, I'm very surprised that we are coming back to the idea, I was expecting more of a graphics/gameplay rant, but that's ok

You say the idea isn't going to cut it... Do you mean that people don't like it? Or the foundry just won't let me pass the drafting gates with this. For the first option, I can assure that a reasonable number of people like the idea of the crater as well as the rush to the center gameplay.

What made the st p. Day map a failure was it's base on luck. Players made almost no contact until the center, if I remember correctly. The game reliedon good dice instead of strategic attacking and troop placement. While this is hard to accomplish, I believe conquer crater does a better job in theory than that other one. ( I am planning to make a sequel called conquer crater escape, where you have to get the f*ck outta the center when the conqueronium stuff starts to blow up.

)

I thank you for your praise for the graphicwork, I'm sure you understand what it must feel like to do graphic design like this with only asmidge of Photoshop experience to begin with. If I didn't have that texture of the crater, my ass would be over a fire right now.

it doesn't have the potential to go through? I assume we are still talking idea wise, right? Or are you talking about the artist?

11 pages ago:

the.killing.44 wrote: The map-making process takes months. You will recieve hundreds of comments, and obtaining stamps will be hard. So you have the right process, but add months onto that.

But don't despair! You have a lot of determination and I bet you can make it through

.44

by **sinctheassasin** on Wed Aug 19, 2009 6:51 pm

Big and small now

small:

Click image to enlarge.

Big:

Click image to enlarge.

still working on trying to get in destruction, and that text looks blurry on the small, so ill have to maybe change the effects for the small image..

I also tried out build 2 of premier2k's XML GENERATOR

you can view the current "rough XML" http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0ATA_jAcGSJaYZGRoNGo4c3hfNXh0cjVmZ2dy&hl=en

by **Premier2k** on Thu Aug 20, 2009 12:51 am

Wow! I am liking this map!

I'm not not sure that I like the blue writing, quite difficult to make out some of the text.

Some spelling mistakes (These might be deliberate? I haven't read through the posts)

Corperate should be spelt corporate
Millitary is spelt with 1 'l'
astroid should be spelt asteroid
adjecents is spelt adjacents

Keep up the good work!

(Glad the XML Generator helped you as well)

Premier2k

by **RedBaron0** on Thu Aug 20, 2009 1:41 am

Ok, this the first time I'm going to post in here. I haven't really read though everything, I've glance at the map from time to time and have noticed a lot of improvement from the original draft. You've obviously have a ton of tenacity and determination to getting this done. You've got some graphical skill and these things will get you far into map making.

Just step back and look at the map and see if you agree with what I see.

You've got a good start an idea here, but there is a lot of things that need to be done before you get to the Foundry. You have followed the draft guidelines to a "T," but look at what you have:

sinctheassasin wrote:number of territories- 34
number of continents-6 (only three receive bonuses)
unique gameplay- center wins when held, but may not attack.

You have a small map with an objective to achieve. No one will attempt to go for the objective because as a player it is going to be easier to just kill the other player(s) on the map since it will take a large escalating game turn in to go for the center and why go for the center and hold it for a turn when you can turn in and kill your opponents and win this turn. There are few bonuses to try and build up a stack with and take the center either, and if you get one of the bonus regions you'll be holding a third of the map, at that point you may as well take out your opponents and win the game.

The idea is a sound one, what I think you to do here is break it down and see how this map can work. Working on step 9 of 10(XML) doesn't help you here either, you need to get a good working image first and foremost, and finagle things here and there as you work your way into the Foundry.

You've got a decent story, but the map itself doesn't really reflect it. What I'd like to see is various military forces starting along the outside of the map.(starting points) Your force must work their way through the ruins of a once vast metropolis that has pockets of survivors and resources(auto-deploy bonuses), and regions of broken control, dying for leadership.(bonus regions) Most of the map is a maze of wreckage, but at the center is a crater with the coveted conqueronium. Take it and either win the game, or gain the power to destroy your enemies(big bonus a-la Arms Race)

If you're set on your current setup, the military units need to be closer to the rim of the crater, fill in all the space around it with city ruins.(territories) The military units should be starting neutrals and the crater as well. The crater should be smaller to allow for more territories and bonus regions on the map. Give players the ability to get big enough army income to threaten the crater but not big enough to just want to attack and kill all your enemies.

I know you've gotta be frustrated with the process, 6 months as a draft is a longggggg time and most people would have given up long ago. It must be uber-frustrating to see new drafts come after yours and are already into the foundry. Really I see your idea as having a lot of potential, and from the look of things many others also see it. It's just the work you're doing on the map only continuing a map that just won't make it. A small map with a large neutral objective at the center will not work. Most objective map have a lot of territories.(AOR, Feudal, Peloponnesian War, etc.)

Evaluate what you have objectively; see what works and what doesn't. You obviously don't need to worry about being discouraged... you will make it to the Foundry if you keep working at it!

by **sinctheassasin** on Thu Aug 20, 2009 1:49 am

Hey, glad you like it

As for the spelling,... #-o

Except for astroid, I meant a literal astroid hit earth
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astroid? ... ected=true

just joking, friend, I'll fix those as soon as possible...

As for blurry text, I'm going to scratch that outer glow bullshit...

We are going for bevel and emboss now, bitches 8-)

yeah.. I'll get back to you all on that once I try it... :lol:

by **sinctheassasin** on Thu Aug 20, 2009 2:13 am

Oops, sorry redbaron0, didn't see you post, mustve posted at the exact same time :lol:

Anyway, thanks for the encouragement, 6 months and two quitting artists ain't no payday :lol:

Now, back to buissinness.

I agree the map is reletivel small, and with few bonuses, people would be inclined to go around the edges. Maybe some sort of impassible like a dmz seperating each district, and possibly the vehicles, to the radiated zone, forcing played to be tempted by the lush conqueronium...

We also need something to completely boing the players into wantng the center, maybe like a 1000 troop bonus or something insane like that...

As for the XML thing, inwasnt really doing the official, I was just fooling with the XML gen, and I wondered if anybody was curious enough to look, it only took and hour anyway...

For your idea of resources, I think that will have to wait until the third installment, "conquer crater revenge, where scientists have learned wha materials are needed to capture the conqueronium without detonating it... in which it will be super zoomed out to a france sized landscape, with various resources availible, that must be held with the conqueronium to win...

I envisioned a simple layout when I started this thread and Idea as "sme sort of crater map?
And I would really like to keep it that way

thanks for the support!

by **Premier2k** on Fri Aug 21, 2009 10:06 am

I would just like to point out that sinc is doing some testing for me on my new XML tool (here) and wasn't really serious about producing XML at this stage for his map.

I'll be keeping an eye on this mate! Don't give up!

Premier2k

by **Danyael** on Sat Aug 22, 2009 12:38 am

ok since I can't find a pic of your original idea
we'll start here
graphics are minimal too show gameplay setup
your idea is to have
a game where everyone goes for the middle

Click image to enlarge.

what needs to be considered
playable and fair for up to 8 player
how many Regions to start i believe it is 20
I'm i correct? If not you legend tells me nothing so it needs to be shown
now what is the math 20 /8 = 2.5
thats not good for 8 player = major game play flaw
you can work on that as you have(maybe) but not really

Click image to enlarge.

so you want to be stickied i will give you a review (please don't take comments to heart you clearly want to do this map and i applaud you but this is what i think!)

Game Play
very flawed very flawed
so ask yourself
As I pointed out starting region will this work for 4-8 player and be fair for all players
objectives are fun but it should really always be secondary to destroying the opponent which is the true nature of CC
look at Das Schloss only way to win was to get the objective, awesome map and original idea in theory but needed to go back to the drawing board because in practise it didn't work and caused never ending game almost :-$

So that said you need to consider all game play situations that may arise
and your current setup is forcing a huge build bottle neck were the person gets trapped in the middle and then the opponent takes the middle and can't attack out forcing the opponent back and so on and so on
causing endless games

try and make your setup work so no matter what the players are not forced to gain a stale mate
as you may have worked on but your latest update does not show this (see graphics) and (OP)
I have no clue whats going on gamplay wise thru your graphics and the (OP) says nothing important

you will be eternally stuck in draft room until you see this and realized that with so many gp
flaws you will never get that stamp
use the foundries suggestion and idea that they give you they will help you. Complaining about your map being ignored
will make people lose interest and your help stops but i'm sure that not the only reason why your interest die

GRAPHICS
wca gave you and awesome canvas to work on izacque started with a neat idea but he quit ??
so on and so forth
you seem to have a vision and you are now the artist
and you have gone back to just shitting on the canvas as it stands your map is only an idea thats approved for drafting room
THATS IT not ready for the sanding and buffering and polishing of the main foundry
so your graphics need a massive improvement
a few pointers
- blue font unbearable totally clashes with everything yellow and blue should never be that bright on that background
-font. unreadable rethink completely your font font design and colours
-legend total mess
-only thing that is legible is the conqueroinmmm(sp?) fact thats it
- make every fit together
making a graphical side of a map is 10X if not more harder then the xml,idea, and gameplay(most of the time

)
-you need to design your map so it blends in a way that nothing punches you in the go nads but you get the right feeling for the map
once you get your map legible and properly designed so every thing is setup nice and you can read everything with out a struggle you are in the right direction
this is a must or you will not move forward
-as for the graphics on the map the rad zone is coming along and the middle thing is kinda ok but thats about it
-your vehicles are pixeled and looked ripped off from some where planes are flying side ways

Look at the video games like C&C *do not copy their images* for inspiration and draw your own
just look at how their vehicles look and you'll see what yours should look like
but when you draw yours make it so the colours go with the background and they don't stick out like a sore thumbs in a blender
if you want to move forward discuss gamplay while improving your map
*but when your topic is slow in stead of going around complaing work on you graphics*

People will notice your graphic improvement but as of now it seems to be getting worst and worst holding you back from a draft stamp and look at all the maps at CC i'f you think your map is ready for a buff and tweak its going to be an ugly misshaped looking map on a sadly covered awesome background because you have not showed that you are improving with your graphics in anyway why would you or the COMMUNITY want it to be in the foundry ready to sit and collect dust
and not move forward
-in short you need to pratice and experiment with the program you are using and learn how to use it right and work on improving your graphics then maybe if gameplay concerns are fix and no longer flawed maybe a sticky is needed

So until you show that you can use your graphic program actually improve your art work and i mean your art work not
ripped off google earth pics and random sprites
layered in between alot of bad looking lines and text
this map will be stalled forever and ever driving you mad and you driving everyone else mad about it
and i'm pretty sure people are sick of hearing about it

use the landscape right get creative for ron hubbards sake make this an awesome map and you won't be ignored
i ask you and please honestly reply
how much time have you actually but in to this map graphically?

[breath]

[/breath]
since you had to complain in my topic
lets compare
my idea which i started in drafting room on march 11
i did this in 20 mins drunk

Click image to enlarge.

what one shitty ass looking map i made its awful
but it was considered drafting room quailty and a good idea
if i would not improve it in any way it would be in the bin as i speak
so i worked over 250 hours on it
i get sticked and conform to the suggestions on things that the community want changed to improve the playability of the map
i post this

Click image to enlarge.

and on June 14 (four months later)
because i should graphic capability the foundry new that those crappy looking parts on blood will look good soon
and gameplay buff and polish begins i get stamp g p well i was continually improving my graphic buffing and polishing
and I'm at this moment now

Click image to enlarge.

do you see what time and effort does to a drunk ass idea
sure i now my program but i learn something new on it all the time

in short with gameplay flawed graphics not improved and lack to show program knowledge and proper design
this can't and should not as it stands move forward

sinc if you want to continue and see this map get threw this process
erase all the stuff you have get a fresh canvas of the crater an go back to the drawing board
if you read all of this and come back to show these things your map lacks in gameplay and graphics
are fixed and improved you could move forward
or not listen and
you will go crazy and get angry cause forum chaos and continue to drag your map thru the dirt
and your map will die

or find something else to occupy your time and give up on this map

I believe if you try hard and work on your gp gr and listen to the community on ideas and suggestion instead of blowing them off and not listening

their might be light at the end of the tunnel.... for conquercrater

by **sinctheassasin** on Sat Aug 22, 2009 1:38 am

goes to cry in corner.

Sorry guys, I'm going to need some time to recouperate (sp?) from this blow.

Thank you for the feedback, really *sniff* helps... Afterall, that's what i've been asking for. And maybe if your ass wasn't so lazy, you could have provided this months ago so I wouldent have wastedy time with this bull.

by **Danyael** on Sat Aug 22, 2009 1:41 am

don't beat yourself up
reread your topic from start to finish look at all the angles
use your drive and with ome effort you will improve

by **sinctheassasin** on Sat Aug 22, 2009 1:54 am

But you hit the nail on it's fucking head!

The truth is:
I don't know shit about graphics

that's truely the main reason this map sucks balls.

Wca climbing just quit after a short burst and izacque just brought in more neg feed for me to consider after he left.

Personally, I thought the gameplay in thebeginning was epic, and truely made ccrater awesome. 50 territs all one-way fuckin the center.

Well, this ones goin to vacation until I find an artist who doesn't quit on the job...

by **Danyael** on Sat Aug 22, 2009 2:02 am

sinctheassasin wrote:The truth is:
I don't know shit about graphics

that's truely the main reason this map sucks balls.

Wca climbing just quit after a short burst and izacque just brought in more neg feed for me to consider after he left.

Personally, I thought the gameplay in thebeginning was epic, and truely made ccrater awesome. 50 territs all one-way fuckin the center.

Well, this ones goin to vacation until I find an artist who doesn't quit on the job...

find a graphic program say gimp and experiment read up on tuts
learn
and maybe you could tactical it properly yourself you have drive just find your way of expressing it and thee art will flow

sinctheassasin wrote:Thank you for the feedback, really *sniff* helps... Afterall, that's what i've been asking for. And maybe if your ass wasn't so lazy, you could have provided this months ago so I wouldent have wastedy time with this bull.

sorry i tired helping and was shot down in a way
and i have been busy

by **sinctheassasin** on Sat Aug 22, 2009 2:04 am

Mhmmmm, but I'm pretty sure this needs to be in vacation until I do that...

Gl on goblin tribes

sincerily, Sinclair

by **RedBaron0** on Sat Aug 22, 2009 2:28 am

I was kinda hoping my comments would have had a similar effect, but I'm afraid my message didn't come out as bluntly as Danyael's. I applaud Danyael for saying what needed to be said.

sin, listen, the graphics programs that are used to make maps here are extremely complicated to use. If you ask anyone around here they will assure you they will all say they learn things about their programs every day they use them. I'm by no means a cartographer, yet... [-o<

but I had my bad experience learning the ropes of GIMP when I tried making a map of Mars a while back. It flopped but I stuck with it learning how to use the program making signatures for myself and clan mates. Even then it's only the basis of my current knowledge, I've picked up tons of different techniques with the Japan map I've been making.

You shouldn't give up without at least trying, you and this map have a great deal of potential. You need to experiment with your program, try every tool, click every box, try every option in the drop down boxes. You've gotten this far, it would be a shame to throw away all the time you've put into this. The best way to learn is to fail. Take your experience here and build upon it!

by **thenobodies80** on Sat Aug 22, 2009 5:39 pm

sinctheassasin wrote:Mhmmmm, but I'm pretty sure this needs to be in vacation until I do that...

Put on vacation under mapmaker request. If the map maker wishes to resume production a CA will move their thread back to the main foundry after an update is posted.

[Moved]

by **wcaclimbing** on Sun Aug 23, 2009 1:34 am

this is disappointing.

good luck with whatever you choose to do, sinc. Sorry I couldn't help with the graphics more.

by **sinctheassasin** on Thu Mar 17, 2011 12:20 am

Hey guys!

It's been a year since i've been on Conquer club, and i've missed it very much,
I quit conquerclub after almost burning out with all of the stress of exams, and I wanted to start fresh on a map idea i gave up on a while back!

Conquer Crater

Basically, the gist of this map is that there's a central space on the board where holding it gives you a massive number of reinforcements, probably enough to crush your enemy.
However, this space can only be attacked, so once you commit your armies there, its all or nothing. If you put too many of your troops and get crushed, you lose, put too few and you start a chain reaction of people anti-ing up on the central space in order not to lose the battle.

The basic story line of this map is that an astroid crashes, revealing the rare conqueronium that has the capacity to destory earth. factions of armies then quickly scramble to obtain this.

Surrounding this central space are a series of rings. The first one, is comprised of blast shards, and being radioactive, they will slowly wither your troops to nothing.
outside of this is the millitary ring, where multiple units can be taken and prepared to attack the center through the shards.
On top of that , you have the city where the meteor crashed. This city is split into districts, each gaining a couple reinforcements for being held.
There are also several artillary pieces that can bombard conqueronium, making for a great weaking force against the enemy.

To get a better picture of this idea (no pun intended) Here is my old draft of the map, lets just call it rough for now since I'm really in the mood to start afresh, as old memories of last year's failures haunt me

Note: picture does not include artillary

Click image to enlarge.

And to any diehard mapmakers who laughed at my ingorance and close-mindedness, I am ready to tackle this with motivation and openness

by **thenobodies80** on Thu Mar 17, 2011 8:40 am

[Merged] with the old thread.

You're the original poster so you can edit the first post, I don't see reason to start a new thread on the same topic.
I leave this thread into the ideas forum for now because the map needs a real update to be moved back into the foundry system.
Now, I strongly suggest you to read again what Danyael said to you here --> viewtopic.php?f=63&t=84591&hilit=conquer+crater&start=180#p2172456 .

I'm happy to see you back in the foundry, but I don't want you find yourself to deal with same issues again. O:)