Fort Sumter, Portland

[HitRed]

[2dimes]

Looks bigger in the painting.

[Jdsizzleslice]

Quite the similar conundrum.

[ConfederateSS]

--------Not really...There was nothing ,no law that said a state couldn't leave the Union/USA....So when The SOUTH left... STATE'S RIGHTS...They were not treasonous...The USA was in The CSA without permission...When Each State left the Union...They voted to leave...They didn't burn their cities to the ground in The SOUTH(Northern aggression would do that later)...So, there is no comparison...When the USA/Sons of Liberty was protesting England...The most the USA/Sons of Liberty did was to throw tea overboard...They didn't burn the ships...or harm the crews in anyway...During the Amer.Rev...Washington led a war of retreat to win...But when he took Trenton...he didn't burn Trenton to the ground...He took his troops and left,after he won the battle...What is happening in Portland...Is straight up Commie crap...There is no comparison...Maybe if people would stop attacking HISTORY...They would stop spreading...FAKE NEWS... ... ConfederateSS.out!(The Blue and Silver Rebellion)... ....STATE'S RIGHTS still exists today...Not like back then when every State thought of itself as a country...But take the lock down...Some States like South Dakota , didn't lock down...Where Michigan seemed it was never going to reopen...STATE'S RIGHTS... ...If these stupid Left mayors and governors ,would learn HISTORY...They would see it repeats....But if they want to go through street blocks burning...Stores ,etc...leaving...They should have looked Detroit up...Once the Arsenal of Democracy...WW2...Burnt out in the 1960's...It took 6(ish) decades to rebuild from the ashes...For people and companies to come back to the city...Have fun Portland, Seattle,etc...you are headed for 60(ish)years of wasteland,life...

[jimboston]

No country is ever formed with it’s own demise planned.

You’re right, there was no law saying a State couldn’t leave the Union, just like there was no law saying it could.
It’s never ‘planned’ because it’s never expected/supposed/desired.

Even if there were a law it’d be moot, because the people wanting to leave would claim. the law was ‘illegal or no longer valid’ and the central gov’t would claim the law was ‘not valid because proper conditions haven’t been met’ or some such bull.

The existence or lack of a ‘law’ is immaterial.

[mookiemcgee]

Pink Floyd laser light show does not equal burning city to the ground.

Pretty sure comparing cannon fire and guns, to laser pointers and fireworks isn't exactly the same thing. Keep watching the 'news' and get all worked up about it though.

[KoolBak]

Funny hearing the local moms whining at length about going down to Portland to peacefully protest and getting hit in the head with a gas cannister, getting a foot smashed by an officer, getting a titty whacked by a rubber bullet.

The peaceful protests are all over. The violent shit is at the courthouse. The peaceful people do NOT hang out at the courthouse. WTF you doing there in danger liberal mom?

I've made several of them very angry (like they weren't already) by asking these difficult questions

Dumb, rich, bored, self important soccer moms. Use that effort to raise your fucked up, spoiled, self entitled kids instead.

We're 10 miles south of the epicenter. Son works downtown 10 blocks west of it and it's completely normal.

[Dukasaur]

WTF you doing there in danger liberal mom?

Standing up against police brutality?

You know, this isn't just about black people. People of all colours are victims of police brutality.

[KoolBak]

No, Duk. Incorrect.

Dumb bitch had to PUT herself there, with the violent, destructive, looting, stealing crowd at the courthouse. This is a one-two block area. It is many many blocks away from the PEACEFUL protests going on everywhere else. Those people have NOTHING to do with ANY actual protest. They're animals engaging in their basest abysmal behavior.

The moms I reference CHOSE to go there in order to brag / engage their gods given right to be idiotic martyrs.

Lots of other affluent soccer moms going down to the peaceful gatherings, ignoring their children, not getting hurt. I'm addressing the beligerant ones. NONE of them doing a damn bit of good.

And, for the record, I always have and always will support our men and women in blue. I took a gift of snacks to our local precinct recently from my small biz and my family....think I'll do it again....

Doesn't matter one fucking bit your skin color, sexual preferences, religion, political vent, number of extremeties. People are either decent or they're not.

[2dimes]

I believe Duk that several police officers on earth are jerks, dishing out unreasonable beatings for little to no reason.

Let's be real, videos of police murdering black guys exist. It seems unbelievable but I reluctantly watched one. That's not ok.

Unlike the folks Koolbak is talking about, if police officers are near by abusing innocent people dumb enough to wander into a particular place. I don't think. "I'm going down to get me some of that."

Doesn't matter one fucking bit your skin color, sexual preferences, religion, political vent, number if extremeties. People are either decent or they're not.

I believe that's true for police too.

I understand the frustration of those that are upset with bad members of police forces. I understand being angry the system seems to allow it. I don't understand wanting to eliminate the police. What do they think those bad cops are going to do once they are unemployed and have no department to slow them down.

How many people more would riot if there were no police to slow them down? I get the feeling there are plenty more people who would go break windows for a free tv if there were less police.

If more people would follow basic rules or just be decent humans. Politicians would quickly shift funding away from police departments.

Let's see how things unfold. I think a few places are just going to get worse. Let's hope I'm wrong.

[KoolBak]

Of course it's true for police too. And tailors. And bankers. And truck drivers. I said PEOPLE

[2dimes]

I know. Just wanted pound this virtual keypad.

Maybe because I'm frustrated a bit with rampant jaywalking here.

People can't figure out the fact they should wait for the light to change before crossing the street. Then they put up their hand and glare, because I have a green light and don't slow down enough for their taste while they are doing it.

No thought of their safety, they just think the pedestrian has the right of way.

To them I say, "Good luck stopping a car being operated by one of those drivers that's texting using your hand."

Maybe some of those bad cops could come Here and lay into jay walkers with batons.

[jonesthecurl]

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jul/31/portland-protests-latest-peaceful-night-federal-troops-withdrawal?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard&fbclid=IwAR36rhAja6lO7v54RIDj56gdB6qz1Ei0leooinme8lyVA4J7EXMHxAnBwk8

[2dimes]

I don't know Jones. I didn't click the link but that sounds too reasonable. You don't want to ruin all the hard work of the fear mongers do you?

[spurgistan]

What do they think those bad cops are going to do once they are unemployed and have no department to slow them down.

Well, not be able to murder people without facing legal consequences, for one thing. I'm curious how qualified immunity and having a union that fights for your right to terrorize and hurt other people 'slows them down.' Breonna Nelson, by the way.

[2dimes]

What sort of legal consequences, a cease and desist letter?

There would be no law enforcement.

[jonesthecurl]

Apart from some crazies, the demand is not to get rid of the police, but to (a) make them more accountable (b) stop asking them to do things which they are not trained to do (c) not equip them like an occupying army.

[riskllama]

Apart from some crazies, the demand is not to get rid of the police, but to (a) make them more accountable (b) stop asking them to do things which they are not trained to do (c) not equip them like an occupying army.

sounds reasonable. if they want to play soldier, they can join a paintball/airsoft league - same as everybody else.

[HitRed]

Obama's Midnight Basketball Paintball Counter-terrorism Strategy

[riskllama]

the militarization of police didn't start w/Obamer, HR...

[HitRed]

llama's Midnight Paintball Counter-terrorism Strategy

[spurgistan]

Apart from some crazies, the demand is not to get rid of the police, but to (a) make them more accountable (b) stop asking them to do things which they are not trained to do (c) not equip them like an occupying army.

So, I'd take minor issue with the use of 'crazies' to mean 'people who've maybe had first-hand experience with police brutality and want a total overhaul of the modern policing system, roots and all' but otherwise yeah, conservatives seem to have forgotten what 'defund' means. It doesn't mean get rid of entirely - when Reagan defunded mental health care, for instance, we still have some money for mental health care, just a lot less, so a lot of the slack has been picked up by police.

[mookiemcgee]

Apart from some crazies, the demand is not to get rid of the police, but to (a) make them more accountable (b) stop asking them to do things which they are not trained to do (c) not equip them like an occupying army.

So, I'd take minor issue with the use of 'crazies' to mean 'people who've maybe had first-hand experience with police brutality and want a total overhaul of the modern policing system, roots and all' but otherwise yeah, conservatives seem to have forgotten what 'defund' means. It doesn't mean get rid of entirely - when Reagan defunded mental health care, for instance, we still have some money for mental health care, just a lot less, so a lot of the slack has been picked up by police.

I don't think there is any consensus about what defund the police even means. For many localities this movement is really, defund the police and then start a new police force from scratch (refund the police after the bad apples protected by the union can be routed out). It's more like reset the the police than defund. In other people mind (certainly people that listen to right wing media) it means do away with police forever. I think people who argue for no police ever again are a little crazy(and there are a small number out there)... or at the very least they have a strong anarchist streak and they don't represent what most americans want. Not suprising that trump and his army of talking heads are pushing the idea that all democrats want no police ever again, they are pretty desperate for a win and will try just about anything (including delaying the elections, and undermining confidence in the system in order to gain political advantage.)

I mostly agree with everything Kool said, as I also know a ton of people in and around portland who basically all say the same thing. There are non-violent protests and marches all over portland, police around, no issues of violence on either side (because portland loves protests). Then there is like 1-2 square blocks where the crazies and the feds mostly really just at night are clashing. If you are a mom with 2 kids at home and work a job all day, it's probably a bad idea for you to purposely go at night to the one small area where you are likely to get hit by rubber bullets and tear gassed. You are better off actually engaging in protest somewhere else, there are plenty of options in Ptown.

[jonesthecurl]

Sounds plausible, but the Guardian article seemed to me to show that taking the feds out of it defused the situation.